Gareth Roberts hosts an Anfield Wrap with a difference as we take questions from Facebook and Twitter about anything and everything about Liverpool FC, on the pitch and off it.
In a wide-ranging debate clocking in at over an hour, a panel made up of Jay McKenna, Rob Gutmann, Paul Cope and Mike Nevin talk Jürgen Klopp, season tickets, the mentality of the fanbase and more.
The Anfield Wrap’s free Monday show is supported by RedsBet.
Do you not think as a top manager he has to back his ability to coach danny ings and solanke to do a similar job to the front three thats were a true class manager shines.
The show is a rasper – differing opinions and very well put – great stuff
With regards to what Jay says about him paying however much for a season ticket thats not in his name. I can understand he feels entitled to it but if the person next on the list was offered that ticket which is what should have happened they would have purchased it. Personally i think there should be a rule were you can hold a season ticket for a period of say 2 years and then you must give it up and apply again. Atleast until a bigger ground is in place.
P.S Mike i disagree with saying Adam Llalana is hitting 30, milner and fernanadinho are 30 odd and have done full seasons the latter is miles clear in the league table. Llalana is still a quality option if he can find his feet
Loved the show nontheless, just wanted to put my 2 cent in.
Great podcast!
This “Question time”-theme should be a monthly thing.
On Klopp and his project so far:
All I know is I am absolutely buzzing to watch the Reds at the moment.
The team is playing the best football I have seen in decades. Rival fans are genuinely feeling frightened by us whenever we meet. And it is safe to say that we are being recognized around Europe again as a serious football team. I remember a time not too long ago before Klopp when I was feeling indifferent when going to home matches, not only because of bad results but mainly because of having to witness consistent mediocre performances.
Like everyone else, I am desperate to see the Reds win a title again. And to be absolutely frank, I’d be chuffed with a League Cup or FA Cup but what I am truly craving is winnng the Premier League and the Champions League. And I truly believe Klopp is our best bet at winning those two titles under the current ownership and in the current football climate.
The way I see it, Klopp still has got about 4 years left on his contract. I feel we are very close to seeing his finished article and unless it all goes wrong very quickly, I am more than happy to let the man build and make his decisions in the next 4 years. As long as I see progress in peformances and results, he has got my full backing.
Unfortunately, winning the big trophies is never guaranteed, no matter how strong a team is assembled.
Footy is mad and sometimes you need the bounce of the ball to go in your favour. I am excited to be on this journey with Klopp and the lads. It’s all about the moment.
COYR!
LFC are 3rd and just beaten Porto 0-5 away in the last 16 of the champions league – and some of you are talking about replacing Klopp with Gerrard?!
Gutmann talks so much sense. Cope sounds like a bit of a know it all tbh..
I also feel a sense of arrogance among the fanbase in general and funnily enough, it is probably due to our massive upward trajectory over the last two years which is down to Klopp and the lads. People seem to forget what kind of side Klopp inherited when he came in and what state we were in back then.
And now look at us! Also City’s total dominance is distorting the bigger picture for most rivals.
It’s mid-February and we got 54 pts after 27 games played.
In any other season we would right in the middle of a title challenge right now. Perspective is needed.
I know right? I had to turn it off because I was getting so angry listening to that guy saying “just pay whatever money…” Yeah, keep playing Football Manager!
Yea – just screw your budget for the summer buying someone in january who is literally moving to the club on 1st july.
Its an argument that really doesn’t stack up. Jeez – to probably just annoy Paul – even City didn’t simply “just pay whatever money” to sign Mahrez in January and that was their second bite at that cherry.
There seems to be a complete lack of financial perspective around these days, as though paying 30m or so over the odds (around 8% of our total income) for one lad who we may or may not need (or want long term) for the remainder of this season is a good idea.
I know Paul finds linking us to man City in conversations is annoying, but saying we simply pay whatever it takes is an argument, falsely, being driven by City and their agendas and therefore we are linked to them.
Klopp is doing a great job. Want to go back to the days of signing Shelvey, Charlie Adam, and Ngog?
This whole “he hasn’t won anything” argument is puzzling to me.
Would fans be happy if we won the league cup or FA cup but we weren’t in the champions league, top 4, let alone the quarter-finals? Doubtful.
Look at the improvement in the squad since Klopp’s arrival. Fans whined about no Suarez replacement, and now Salah is having a season that neither Torres or even Suarez didn’t have. Fans whined about no youngsters coming through, and now Trent, Gomez, and Woodburn have been growing under Klopp. Fans whined about Rodger’s inability attract quality players, and Klopp has got VVD and Keita to choose Liverpool over the moneyed rivals.
Klopp has developed players into a higher level. Klopp brought us 2 cup finals in the season he took over. He got us top 4 the year later. This season we are in the quarter finals of the champions league…where we have been missing for a decade, and yet, people are whining about the FA cup?
What do some fans realistically want? Top 4 every year, a trophy ever year, being in the last 16+ every year and pay whatever transfer fee and wages a club/player wants? Keep dreaming.
For many fans, it’s either FSG is the problem or Klopp is the problem. Both are stable entities that can bring us and have brought us progress. Remember where this club was 5 years ago.
Rodgers brought us close ONE YEAR, but did fuck all in every other competition. He inherited one of best players ever in Gerrard, Suarez, Sterling, etc. Now history is being re-written as if he was some genius.
Klopp’s history at his previous 2 clubs shows that he progressed with them over time. He is building something. If fans want a 1 or 2 year turnaround club to support…go to Chelsea and Man City if all you care about are trophies. Klopp is doing it the right way, and we should repay that with our faith, patience, and trust…until there is evidence of otherwise.
THIS! Well said.
Thank you, came for this.
Is it not possible to win the league/FA Cup AND qualify for the CL??
I love the Anfield Wrap but some of the contributors default to moaning. I was staggered to hear them give Klopp and FSG a lukewarm thumbs up. Jesus when will they ever be happy. They are searching out for reasons to moan. Gareth Roberts summed it up perfectly when he said ‘you don’t have tojoin the dots to continually knock the club down’. Gutmann as always was great. And positive.
Firstly I think the issue with the tickets is a much bigger one than portrayed on here, I don’t have any figures but personal experience and a quick look on the net will tell you there are heaps of dodgy sites offering tickets at highly inflated prices, a lot of which are fans using these sites to porn out there season tickets, almost using these tickets as means of a second income. Its not small potato’s by any means.
They have closed the season ticket list , think at the last count there were over 25,000 people signed up , so if you are fortunate enough to own one the least you can do is use it and support the team the best way you can, not flog it out.
There must be a way to have some kind of fingerprint recognition on the season ticket which means when you go through the turnstiles you and you alone use the season ticket, anything less than say 80% attendance means you forfeit your season ticket.
Personally think a turnover of the crowd would also help the atmosphere, imagine if you have been on that list for 20 years and eventually get it!
Secondly whether we like it or not the club has got to be run in a business like fashion, it would be great to let everyone in for £20 or build a ground which holds 85,000 people but I have a feeling if anyone of the contributors were looking at the balance sheet and it was telling them they would make a loss unless tickets were uplifted, what would they do? They are not daft, question them, ask questions but don’t think they in some way want to inhibit the club moving forward just for the sake of it. If any scheme is financially viable they will take it on but in the same way as your own business it has got to wash its face.
Pulisic for 60 mill in Jan, you ain’t got a hope in hell in getting that done if I heard right, glad Gareth said ‘how do you know they have not tried to do the business you want the to do’, its almost as if its as simple as Liverpool wanting a player and he will just come.
Personally glad Klopp has not got this scatter gun approach to transfers we have had with managers of the past, we may be light up top but lets not just spunk the money on any old dross.
Great pod, great concept, although did not agree with some of the points which is fine , great line up(especially Rob) great host, all good
The point Paul Cope was making was that we should have brought in one of our summer targets in Jan and if that meant overpaying by £20mil so be it.
You assume that was possible.
I find that things are definitely impossible if you don’t try.
You are missing the point mate, how do you know they didn’t try
So which of our summer transfer targets did we bid for in Jan?
So did you know we were signing VVD a week before he signed, I would guess no, the club are trying to do business in a much more discreet manor so unless you are in the inner sanctum you or I don’t know who we have asked about , a point both Gareth and Rob have made time after time
There were many many rumours that we were going after him again in Jan and a few days before it actually happened I’d heard it was going thru.
So which of our summer transfer targets did we pursue hard in Jan?
Let’s say Alisson is a top target, how do you know Liverpool did not check his availability in Jan and his willingness to come not withstanding Roma’s desire to sell in the first place, I know nothing of how a transfer works but in reality if you get a no to 1 out of these three it’s incredibly difficult even if you offer double what they want for him which again you don’t know even on an informal level they did not try, I think we would both agree it’s a lot harder to get these over the line in Jan oppose to Summer?
Of course it’s harder to get them done in Jan rather than the summer but as Paul Cope was suggesting you offer over and above the asking price to ensure you get your man. This is the whole point of this discussion. You go aggressively after your target.
Did we attempt that with Allison?
Do I remember Roma putting a £44mil price tag on him and us backing off?
How do you know they did not have this conversation with Roma? As you put it going in aggressively and were told don’t rock the boat now and in return you get first dibs in the summer,
I know what the point Paul was making but Paul like you has no idea how hard the club are trying to get very difficult transfers under way and over the line, just because knowone is signed doesn’t mean they have not tried and are still trying behind the scenes as per Rob and Gareth said
If we put a bid in for Allison do you not think it would be plastered everywhere in this era of 24hr news cycle?
Or even leaks get out that we were in a serious conversations about it?
From what I remember we showed interest, were quoted £44mil and then backed off.
For god sake we knew that we had a medical team on standby ready to conduct an examination of Lemar late in the summer transfer window.
The VVD Jan deal which was supposed to be mega secret even managed to get out.
The point Cope and I are making is that we didn’t go in aggressively because if we did we’d know about it.
It would be too hard to keep secret.
You mean you would have known about it in the same way as when we signed Man’e and Wijnaldum? The press all over those two signings?, Has been discussed many times on here VVD although wanted and expected still came out the blue,
I completly understand and respect the points you are making with me and further down, at times as supporters we feel we know what is going on, i just think the reality is somewhat different.
Willful ignorance from Cope.
‘Just sign the lads’…yeah but what about the myriad reasons why we can’t always do that?…’nah just sign him’…but what about the wages gap?…’nah not bothered’.
Fucking hell. Rob and Gas deserve medals.
Nevin ‘just sign Mahrez’…’Xabi Alonso in 12 months’
Blimey.
Listened to the Kenny podcast last night. I think it was Tony said we thought Souness would just carry on where Kenny left off. Didn’t quite work out like that. Klopp’s the best we can get at the minute. The grass isn’t always greener. Be careful what you wish for. Liverpool are one good summer away from having a team good enough to take on anyone in the world. Remember when we were in the CL a few years ago? Needed a last min penalty to beat some team I’ve never heard of. Was it Ludogorets. Drew with too and a draw and defeat v Basle then humiliated by Madrid. We’ve come a long way.
Totally agree with Mike about selling your ticket on. Happens to me all the time. Can you get me and my lad a ticket? He’s desperate to go to a match. Yeah I can but it’s gonna be £106. Oh, we’ll just leave it then. It’s embarrassing. But, disagree about cheaper seats changing mentality. After the 13/14 season I decided to be less bitter (or fatalist as it was referred to). It’s a mindset and can be changed. I still explode with rage when we lose but overall I’m really enjoying watching us at the minute. I can sense a big win is around the corner. All my mate says is ‘typical of us that’. At 3-0 v Porto he said, ‘this isn’t over with us’. I find it irritating. It’s down to the TV money as much as anything but I feel we’re (and going to) spending it well. It’s enabled us to buy the best players for the first time in years. We can buy almost anyone from any club outside England bar 2 or 3 clubs. I bet we’ll buy a Real player in the summer. We’re closing the gap on Europe and have closed it on the top 4.
What happens to the supporters clubs across the country who have had tickets for 30 years but have one named contact with the club re season tickets
I sometimes wonder what a manager has to do to get fans to realise how good he is.
Paul Cope ? What are you on about mate? Only Rob seems to fully get this. In terms of recent stature, finances and ability to attract players in the face of state owned club power competing with us, Klopps work is incredible.
We are entertaining and we are improving, team wise and fiscally.
Delusions of grandeur are levelled at us fans for exactly this. Players are coming for a Klopp – good money and great club yes, but mostly Klopp.
Everton, rich with new money can only stumble around in the dark with Allardyce.
Get behind your man – it was only a while ago we had Roy and Konchesky
That was one of if not the worst discussion on Jurgen Klopp I have ever heard. Complete and utter stupidity. Neither the owners, Klopp, his coaching staff, or the players deserved that. Such a horrible way to look at one of the best teams Liverpool have had in the last 30 years and is still just in its infancy. Wake up, Klopp is building a squad and team that can challenge and win the league title season in season out, and compete for the CL every season for the next decade, bringing us right to the top table, his vision is clearly lost on Cope and McKenna where everything is the same short term generic garbage you hear from senile pundits on TV saying ‘just sign so and so blah blah, Butland and Hart would do well, why didn’t we go for Evans in the summer? Klopp’s already under extreme pressure’ lost in a backward mentality with no idea how modern day great teams are founded even though they’re getting a first class demonstration from Jurgen Klopp. Wow, the blind trying to lead the blind, but thankfully most of the fanbase are not blind and can see what an awesome job Klopp is doing, I would even call it inspired. Klopp has made so many good signings but you’re giving him your bad advice? Thankfully he won’t listen.
If the manager of Liverpool made decisions like these two hope we would become like Leeds, blind, reckless pride coming before the fall, the opposite of Liverpool’s socialist roots, where collective decisions, smart decisions unite with utter sacrifice, perseverance, and total commitment to the shirt and identity to create excellence not entitlement.
Fuck me what you have said in this podcast is so wrong I feel sorry for you people, genuine pity and you actually think people should pay to hear it, thank God it was a free show, if anyone had paid for that you’d have been swamped with refund requests from outraged supporters who can actually see the light and are not scratching around the basement looking forlornly at photo’s from the 60’s, 70’s, 80’s and missing what is right in front of their eyes because Gerrard isn’t the manager. The best managers are in the premier league at our rivals but we should sack Klopp and throw Gerrard to the wolves so he can go the way of Shearer and Neville? Idiots.
Klopp is the old philosophies LFC was founded on in a modern incarnation but it seems that is lost on some people. He has taken us up and up. Our development and trajectory is comparable with any of the very top clubs in Europe and we’ve come from further back and with less, and if you can’t enjoy this Liverpool team that is getting better week by week mentality, tactically in attack and defence, and in team spirit, trust, identity, and sacrifice then what the fuck is the point?
Jurgen Klopp is not under pressure, that’s just your stupidity talking, he has made LFC the pressure. We’re the team Man City are worried about in the league next season and I’m not even worried about them because I believe in this manager and squad and I know I’m not alone, and every team in Europe knows we’re serious about the Champions League this season and I’m not worried about any of them either. We’re the pressure now, wake the fuck up. That was a shameful discussion, it wasn’t even a discussion, it had nothing that related to what Klopp has done, just a few damning with faint praise ‘I think he is a good manager but could be better’ lines, and then a whole load of waffle about the signings he hasn’t made omitting the absolute slam dunks he’s already brought to the club. You’re too busy talking about your ‘pieces’ you can’t tell your analysis is in pieces. This was the Humpty Dumpty of podcasts right here with terrible opinions and senile waffle, but if you just stop for a second to actually get to know this team and manager even you can be put back together again and start enjoying football, wow.
Mate. Those unfair discussions were just a reflection of the modern mentality of football fans who want instant success. Some of those guys are tired of waiting for another title and tbf it has been a long time since this great club has won a big one. Therefore, all the moaning and unjustified drivel (except Rob who is level-headed and fair in his assessment).
What I want to say is, it’s no use nowadays to keep arguing with the negative nancies. No manager or team is perfect so there will always be a stick around to beat them with.
This mentality wont change. Just look at all the managers who won League titles and got the sack the following season. Klopp could and (I hope he) will win the League. But if he will only come 4th the season after that, the pitchforks will be out again. It’s modern footy mate. At least. the people in charge know what briliant work Klopp is doing. And that is all that matters in the end.
I think the issue is elsewhere if I’m honest and it’s transcending into questions and the answers we heard on the show. What I mean by that is, if the club was perfect in every sense behind the scenes then the answers would have been different. I think the real issue with some on the show is around ticketing, the identity of the club, the owners vision and generally the direction of the club. There seems to be resentment there. I think Jay was about right when he said FSG are 6 out of 10. I made the point in the comments of the article Paul Cope mentioned that LFC have failed a little in the commercial aspect. I know first hand that the board of another big club laughed at our kit deal. They got £35m a year more than us and thing we agreed too early without proper bargaining. Difficult to say if that’s right but City can’t be as far ahead of us as sponsorships suggest whether they’ve won 2, soon to be 3 leagues or not. P.s I’m aware the truth is City’s deals are probably not a true value of the club but more the advancement of Abu Dhabi. Then there’s the Annie Road. I think FSG have done ok. Our trajectory is probably a couple of years behind where it should be but we’re getting there thanks to the new tv deal. But, the Annie Road extension is where I would strongly criticise. The question is, can LFC sell out an extra 6k tickets? You don’t need to do research to work it out. I was surprised by the murmurings last week about it possibly going ahead because there was a corporate event linked to LFC and a senior figure suggested it wouldn’t. In hindsight it may have been said that Kirby was prioritised and the suggestion was it would be done after that. Truth is my understanding was the fans are being strung along. Which brings me to another important point – the lack of communication from the club. I know it matters to some but I don’t want to see FSG at matches. I don’t get off on that. I would like the odd briefing from the club on important issues though. Perhaps once every 6 months or so.
I’m happy with the way things are going. I’m excited for the future. Last thing I want right now is a change of manager or owners. That would be folly. I’m sick of transition periods. We’re on the verge of success imo. I wonder if those issues I mentioned above has left some bitterness / disillusionment and clouded the judgement of what’s going on in reality on the pitch. We said for years the club didn’t take advantage of our size when the PL started. Now we seem to be modernising. I feel this is another important issue. Football has changed beyond recognition. I look back on the 80’s fondly but the football we see today is exciting as it’s ever been. There seems to be a fight to keep some of the values that the club has grown on and in a time where football is a huge corporate environment that can only be a good thing. It’s the old way and the new way clashing trying to forge a future that emcompasses the modern game whilst working for the people the club has been built on. For me, the answer has become clearer the last few years. 5 years ago it was less possible but now, the difference to the club, per season, over selling expensive tickets and reasonable tickets is a drop in the ocean. If the club did this the whole environment around the club and the team would change (not to contradict myself with above comment, fatalism is still a mind set imo and can be lost). Liverpool fans are not just customers they’re the fabric of the club. There are clearly fans who want to treated like they’re the fabric and not customers and that’s really where the battle lines are drawn. LFC are growing and progressing. I’m more than happy with our progress on the pitch. I’m just pointing out that it’s the underlying issues that need sorting more than a new manager and if they were we wouldn’t hear some of the strange comments we heard on the show in relation to Klopp.
P.s Best show TAW have done for a while imo. A monthly round up with some of these same guests would be superb. That fact is, it’s where people’s interest is. The articles and comments on those articles such as FSG, Annie Road, are we progressing or stalling should tell you that.
“I would like the odd briefing from the club on important issues though. Perhaps once every 6 months or so. ”
Isn’t this partially addressed with the fan forum things set up with tony Barrett?
And as for City and their commercials…they use some interesting accounting models to remove certain costs and increase certain revenue streams. They earn a 100m more than us and were 100m behind us 5 years ago? Well, that’s what winning the league, getting sponsorship linked bonuses, CL money etc can do for you. For instance, their shirt sponsorship deal is 40m a year for 10 years. In the ballpark with us. Their gate receipts are comparable with ours. TV money isn’t that different either. So, where does the rest come from is the question?
And comparing shirt deals etc is a moving target – teams renew at different times and the inflation in the amounts being paid quickly make an old deal look poor. But we renew in a year or so (I think) and we’ll see what that brings for us.
Keith, there’s two things I’d add regarding the kit deal. Firstly, City’s is £50m. Yes, it was signed later than ours but they don’t sell anywhere near the same number of shirts as us. I’m sure you’re aware of how it works, the kit sponsor gets around 90% of kit sales. We sell 1m kits a year. The Utd one is understandably bigger because they sell far more than us. If we’ve signed a long term deal that ties us into £25m for the foreseeable then is it good business? Secondly, football revenue is growing across all levels. Maybe someone should have foresaw that. I’m simply making a point I was told, that Utd’s board feel we accepted the offer too readily. I’ve no idea how they would know that but a board member told me personally.
Regarding the communication, I’m sure the fan forum was set up with good intention. I applauded them for that. My belief was the steering committee was token gesture and a waste of time. Addressing that was a step in the right direction. Tell me though, where are we up to with the Annie Road extension? No one in the fan forum seems to know. What is the intention behind the ticket amnesty? Again, it’s left to conjecture. I can understand why the club are so silent. Everything they’ve ever said has been used against them repeatedly but you must see the communication is so little it verges on unhealthy. As you’re probably aware, I think they’ve done ok. I’m not looking to cause mischief or put them down but it’s difficult to defend them on communicating. I’m only pointing out what I see as the issues of others are and what is leading to this confrontation. There is a belief in the higher echelons of society that the more you
say the more chance there is of it coming back to bite you. Not sure that should apply to LFC though. Personally, I’m happy with most things but not everything. Commercial revenue has gone up by less than £20m above inflation since 2010. It’s not a huge amount. Considering business is their expertise and not football then I would have expected more, that’s all.
Can someone ring John Henry and let him know exactly what percentage of games Robin thinks it is fitting that he attends.
Like I said in the comments on here and twice in the comments on Mikes Friday column I don’t care about the owners at games. Personally, I don’t want to see them at Anfield. Makes no difference to me what’s so ever so I’m not sure why you’re writing sarcastic comments insinuating I want them at games. I don’t. Anyway, you call yourself Gherkin so I’ve nothing more to add you fuckin degenerate.
You don’t care if they are at games.
Personally you don’t want to see them at games.
It makes no difference to you whatsoever.
I’m glad you cleared that up for us.
I think it needed clearing up for you despite the numerous times I’ve said it doesn’t bother me if they show up or not. If you were unsure, explain what your comment meant My feeling is you assumed that because despite the hundreds of comments I’ve written on here saying I think they’re good owners I did question their commercial ability. I think it was too much to bare having someone criticise FSG and you got in a tantrum and threw one of the common criticisms at me. Gherkin, lol. You sound like a right laugh.
Go’ed, TheGoldenSky!
I’m not having in that Klopp is doing ‘OK’. It is absolutely quality work we are witnessing, here. Xabi Alonso? Gerrard? Based on what, Guardiola? It’s not like he was doing nothing just before he took the Barca job. The preparation by him and of him was immense.
Absolutely agree. Am a subscriber of Anfield Wrap and though free this is one of the most negative and frankly ignorant podcast from the team !
It’s a relief to read that the listeners have some sense! Klopp has done a marvelous job. How is it possible (Rob G. excepted) that you all don’t see it?! This talk about replacement managers and paying whatever it takes to bring in a player we’ve already signed… And 70 million for Mahrez… Jeez Louise… You all need a collective reality check. Do you have no memory of the past decade? Klopp has done quite well and the trajectory is positive. Up to now he’s earned our support.
Addendum. “The ball is round” was not coined by Platini. The full quote is “Der Ball ist rund. Das Spiel dauert 90 Minuten.” That is, “the ball is round, the game lasts 90 minutes.” Said by Sepp Herberger, manager of the 1954 German World Cup team. Anyway, not to be a nuisance, just clarifying. Great podcast
Better than the real question time
Pointless moaning, won’t be listening to any of these again, trying to turn everything negative, Gutmann excluded. Jurgen Klopp is boss and so are the players and we’re only going to get better, let the other things sort themselves, no idea how cope can change from so positive about the team in other podcasts and sound so negative in this.
Different contributors with different view points, some different from your own so you decide you won’t be listening ever again.
You do realise how childish this comes across?
Mike Nevin complaining about a fatalistic support.
Next week on TAW – Kettle makes allegations of racism against pot.
Agree with SOS on a whole host of issues and agree with Jay on the majority of things he says.
However. I always wonder what the SOS lads would think if they couldn’t get a Season Ticket at all (be it in their name or their mates’ name) due to the fact that so many have been ‘loaned out’ by STH to other people? Some of the SOS lads have effectively ‘jumped the queue’ but think its all ok, as they have a ticket – not sure what they would think if the other way around?
Appreciate that Jay would say “well ive paid £700 every year for 10 years for this”- which is true but he’s got the ticket as he ‘knows the right people’, not because he was due one – be interesting on his thoughts if this “knowing the right people” happens in other walks of life.
I’ve been on the list for years. I paid a £5 a few years ago when the club asked. Still 11k on the list though. So a lot more than 2,000 people paid the £25 which was said on the podcast.
I don’t think it’s a Spirit Of Shankly thing mate. I think its simply being a local lad and taking up a mate’s ticket who’s moved away or whatever.
SOS is only 10 years old so that argument doesn’t stack up I’m afraid.
Unlike KM, I agree with you.
I don’t blame Jay for jumping at the chance of a ticket but the justification that he’s been paying all these years is a bit thin. If the ticket had gone to the next person on the queue – they would have paid for the same number of years.
By all means take advantage of the people you know or where you live to go to as many games as possible – but don’t justify it as something else. You’re stepping over someone else who, according to the rules at least, should have been offered the ticket first.
How Jay Mckenna came across his ticket is his business. I am simply saying any link to SOS, or using that as some kind of leverage, is most likely misplaced.
I agree with that
Playing the best football in ages, qualifying (most likely) for the CL two years in a row, playing arguably the best attacking football in the league…and yet: endless moaning. Do we have a divine right for trophies in the environment of 2018 football money frenzy?!
No problem with criticizing Klopp where its due, but this episode was way too much whining/moaning…unbelievable!
Who’s mentioning divine rights?
We failed at first hurdle of the league cup and for the 3rd year running can’t get past the 4th round of the FA cup.
We were unlucky in Klopps first year not to win anything but let’s not pretend things are all rosy on the silverware front eh?
Things havent been rosy on the silverware front for over a decade.
Look at the team he inherited and level we are capable of playing now.
Challenging for trophies will come sooner rather than later.
Correct but right now Klopps the man in charge. We can’t back to the past and change what’s already happened but we can change what’s going on right now and change things better for the future. We can also learn from previous mistakes so we arnt doomed to repeat them.
I’ve seen fans say they’re glad we’re out of the domestic cups so we can concentrate on CL qualification. CL qualification should be the absolute minimum us as fans expect. I’m tired of fans writing off seasons midseason and thinking we should concentrate on the next season. No! Stop it!
In fairness to the club though, we didn’t write off the FA Cup. We got beat.
we’ve been in something like 3 finals and 3 other semi finals since the league cup win in 2012. Its hardly the club or the players simply giving up on trophies. I’m not sure most fans really see it that way either.
Nobody is writing off anything. But the fact of the matter is we as fans have no influence or control of what the players do on the pitch. Sometimes even the best managers cant control what is happening in front of their eyes.
We put our strongest XI available out for that FA cup game but the players didnt deliver. That happens.
We are 3rd in the League and almost through to the quarter finals of the CL. The season is far from over.
I didn’t mention the club writing off trophies mid season, it was fans I was talking about, but you can’t tell me we went all out to win what we could this season. We weakened our squad mid season while we still had the FA Cup, CL and league to play in. That’s doing the opposite of going all out to win trophies.
Too many fans are seemingly happy with just CL qualification as if it in itself is some sort of trophy. It’s not. It’s the means to an end.
I’ve pointed out that I’ve heard and seen many fans happy we are out of the domestic cups so that we can “concentrate on the CL”.
We are here to win trophies.
Not qualify for competitions next season.
Fans standards/expectations have slipped.
I think most fans understand that for Liverpool to progress and actually become good (rather than having a cup run like Wigan did a few years ago) we have to qualify for the CL for several reasons. Experience playing against the best and different styles, the money it brings to buy players and the fact that you can attract better players once you’re in it.
For me personally, people can add sarcastic comments all they want about parading 4th place on a bus tour but if Liverpool aren’t in the CL then we’re a failure full stop. No domestic cup is going to disguise that.
It’s not an either/or situation though.
No ones advocating forgoing CL qualification just to win a domestic trophy.
It is possible to win a domestic cup AND qualify for the CL.
Too many fans don’t get this despite all of the clubs round us bar Spurs doing this very thing.
Of course it’s not an either / or which is why I don’t fully understand the argument.
Like I said, we did everything we could to win the v West Brom. We just got beat.
But, the CL is hugely important to LFC if we want to win the domestic cups.
It’s no coincidence that 80% of the winners of both the FA Cup and League Cup in the past 15 years have finished in the top 4. That’s why Spurs don’t win it as you mentioned. They haven’t finished in the top 4 enough to build a squad to compete on all levels.
If you want Liverpool to win trophies then they have to have a run of CL qualification and that’s why people place such importance on it. Yes, Wigan won the FA cup 5 years ago and Portsmouth 10 years ago. I’m pleased for them. I bet it was a great day. Where are they now though? When Liverpool used to finish in the top 4 under Rafa and Houllier we won FA Cups and League Cups and for the record we won UEFA and CL ones too. Once we have a run in the top 4 then like Arsenal, City, Utd and Chelsea who’ve won it 8 of the last 10 years we’ll start winning it, and the league and possibly more. Until then, yes, we can have a flash in the pan but that’s all it will be. Once a decade at best (as our recent history shows). Liverpool need to finish in the top 4 if they want to win cups consistently. It’s quite simple and that’s why people with sense celebrate a top 4 finish – because they know where it leads.
If what you’re saying is that CL qualifications is a means to an end then I agree, in fact I said that very thing earlier in this thread but let’s stop writing off competitions during the season and then celebrating qualifying for a competition that doesn’t start until the following season.
Sooner or later you’ve got to win a trophy or you’re just going round in a cycle…..
Can’t win trophies coz we don’t have the players so we must qualify for CL next season to buy better players but then we can’t take cups seriously because we gotta qualify for next seasons CL which means we don’t win any trophies this season.
And so on and so on and so on..
And as I said earlier on the thread we did have the players this year and played them. But, we lost.
It’s not a circle, it’s linear. Utter fuckin shat – a few finals which we lost and didn’t have the squad to stay in the top 4 as a result – a semi final and top 4 – top 4 and a very decent run among Europe’s elite – a league win, an FA cup win and a CL win. :)
That makes no sense.
Pointing out it’s not circular since the season before Klopp took over. We were shite. Then 2 finals but no top 4 etc. Finishing with next seasons projection.
Just feels like Oxlade Chamberlain has been forgotten slightly in the last few weeks and I didn’t hear a mention of him today (may have missed it what with me working at the same time)… if he can get back to the form of December to early January there’s no reason why our midfield next season can be Hendo – Keita – Oxlade-Chamberlain. To me that feels like it’s got good balance and mobility if our front three is Mane – Salah – Firmino.
I think a few people commenting might be missing a fairly fundamental point, one that mirrors the BBC Question Time – it’s a discussion show and if you have four people offering bland, if largely correct, opinions then it will be about as interesting as three week old lettuce. “I think Klopp’s doing pretty good”, “Me too”, “Yeah, room for improvement but not bad so far”, “I agree with all that” – yawn. But take one reasonable person, one for whom the last twenty five years haven’t happened and therefore anything less than the league every year is shameful, one person for whom money is no object and someone who thinks FSG are in league with the devil to destroy LFC – now you’ve got a show.
That might be true Charlie but – and I’ve thought this for a few months now – that leaves TAW in danger of going down the same road as the rest of the media and therefore destroying what lots of people like about it.
The problem with it is that it leads to a need to hold critcal views/responses to short term performances in order to say something different or be entertaining. So, a draw with Chelsea is treated like the end of the world whilst a narrow victory over Leicester is treated like the dawning of a new era of dominance.
In short, I’d swap listening to a show where everyone takes the same measured view against people getting irate because the club didn’t do what they would have done in one instance. I personally find that more entertaining than, for example, 606 or Match Of The Day punditry.
Yeah it is good to hear the ‘outer parameters’ where a wide range of discussion points are included. I reckon Rob was more circumspect on this podcast than he might be on a losing day, to level out the slightly colder eyes of Cope and Nevin.
Surprised how Solanke and Woodburn have not had more starts .Maybe they and Ings are all trained-up veterans of Klöpp’s vision now .
This manager is a chaosmonger and he won’t change.The likes of those Royal Fucking Meringues do chaos but they aren’t as hard-working, organized or unselfish. Please them next.
Best AFQ Footy that wasn’t an AFQ Footy ever.
Great stuff, more like this please – a lot more.
As an American listener, and fan of Cleveland sports teams (i.e. historically hopeless), the perspective from these TAW contributors can be mind numbing.
Try supporting a team that hasn’t won a league title since 1948. The reds are in a great position with Klopp. He is progressing every year. He plays attractive football, is a positive character, and an intelligent football mind with a view on the long-term. He ended his sabbatical for one club only. He couldve gone to Man Utd with their budget and been an instant success, instead he chose the road of passion. And now there are people like Paul slagging him off for insane reasons.
Some of these “supporters” will always find something wrong. Won the league cup but didnt make top 4? Problem. Made top 4 but didnt win the league cup? problem. Didnt sign VVD in the summer? problem. Signed VVD in Jan but not Mahrez? problem.
Get some perspective! The clock isnt going to turn back to when there were only 4 big clubs in England. Fans should be relishing the competition and fight instead of complaining about how no Saudi zillionaire waltzed in and handed us the PL title (and then if that happened, people would complain we bought the title instead of fighting for it with passion).
Liverpool’s English fans have been spoiled with so much success that many are clearly have a sense of entitlement. Hicks and Gillette nearly ruined the club. FSG isnt perfect, but which owners in the world dont view this game as a massive business? Times have changed, but some of our supporters are stuck in a past that is never coming back. It’s harder to win now, and we have the best manager to bring us success in an entertaining and meaningful way.
This is the feeling of negativity that our own players can sense in the stands at times. Back this manager and the player to bring us more success, instead of moaning about how we dont win the double every year like clockwork.
I am genially interested lads, does someone get designated to read through all the reply’s.
Just have a vision of the Office going quite as Gareth reads another response, taking the piss out of the grammatically incorrect punctuation (sorry guilty as charged) with roars of laughter at the end.
Personally really enjoyed the responses from all over, and if I am honest changes my own perspective at times.
Maybe you could have a reward for the best reply of the month with the winner taking part in a show?
Anyway great pod which certainly stirred up emotions.
Wow, great show and great discussion in the comments. I don’t agree with Cope and Nevin but I recognise their input and enjoy the different opinions. Maybe I just like a bloody good full blooded discussion. As for Klopp, I really like him, but crucially I really like what he’s doing at our club. It feels really coherent in a long term way and we haven’t had that in a very long time. Yes, I was annoyed we didn’t sign an attacker in Jan’, but then I was really annoyed when we didn’t sign Gotze and turned our attention to Mane. I was pretty annoyed we didn’t get Dahoud, and went for Gini’, so what the hell do I know. Just be glad an idiot like me isn’t running the show. That said, I reserve my right to be annoyed again if we don’t make the top four (unless we win the CL). There, think I have all bases covered!
*Owners communicate* “Cant they just shut up, there is something called the Liverpool way you know!”
*Owners shuts up* “Why is there no communication!”
*Club tries and bungles the Van Dijk tap-up* “Cant they just sort this thing behind closed doors!”
*Club keeps quiet* “They need to throw their weight around!”
The same old merry go round. What really blew my mind was the Alonso and Gerrard shout. Pure entertainment. Box of frogs.
You’re getting confused mate. People want an explanation of what’s going on with the Annie Road for example. No one is telling them to shut up about it. People want Liverpool to be more forceful in dialogue with other clubs. That can play out both in the media if it’s beneficial but primarily in discussions with other clubs. With van Dijk, we didn’t speak to the club, only the player. That’s tapping up and you don’t run to the press when it’s illegal. I suppose the point you’re missing is everything needs to be measured.
As is said on an other podcast. The club only need to comment on the Anfield Road if they are definitely not going to do it.
Outside of that, there is no need to say anything.
To an extent, I agree. Personally, I don’t think they need to explain what we could describe as competitive strategies i.e who we plan to buy, why we didn’t buy those players and even what our budget is. There are a number of other issues that need dialogue. The ticket amnesty is another. It just makes it a more pleasant environment when there’s dialogue from the club on issues which affect the fans.
The ticket amnesty will be discussed within the various forums and groups etc and communicated to those potentially impacted. I don’t think it needs a back page in the daily paper which it sometimes feels like some fans are looking for.
I mean, does a lad in Australia, or wherever, who’s never been the game actually need to know for any other reason than its something to chat about in here?
Last week, there was a tweet from John Henry and it made the local papers. Why? Because it was such a shock for him to comment publicly on anything LFC. Yet, he regularly talks about the Red Sox. I know it was mentioned baseball ownership is different but we have a club website. He could use it to communicate something. FSG have in the past but not for a number of years. One I remember was a disaster because of under promising Werner said we have the funds to compete with anyone in the . It wasn’t true at the time.
We’re not going to agree on this. Like I’ve said a hundred times I think they’re decent owners. I think LFC is in a very good position on and off the pitch. But, the following statement issued would do no harm and let us know they’re thinking of the club (even though we know they are daily)
Henry / Werner said ‘we’re pleased with the progress being made by Jurgen Klopp. Qualifying for the CL has given us extra revenue and that money will always be made available to Jurgen if he chooses to use it for player transfers and contract extensions. Off the pitch we’re pleased with the addition of the new main stand and work for the new training facility will get under way shortly which we’re all excited about. Then there’s the issue of the Anfield Road extension. Whilst it’s difficult for x, y and z reasons it’s something we still hope to achieve once Kirkby has been finished.
It’s not a lot mate and doesn’t say anything but it just lets us know they’re there. I don’t like the division in the fan base. If something so simple can appease so many then why not do it? P.s the ticket amnesty was brought up at the forum but no real information was given on what it’s objectives are (as far as I can tell)
The club’s lack of communication regarding Anfield Road expansion has been raised on a couple of podcasts recently. The thing is club officials have communicated on the record at least three times, that I have seen, since Henry’s comments about ticket prices presenting a problem.
On each occasion, it has been discussed as an ongoing project. The last thing is saw was the Peter Moore interview in December, where he made it clear it was very much an active project, that the club were exploring a range of options for the development of the stand and recognised the huge demand for tickets. The interview was televised and picked up by press including the Echo and Paul Joyce for The Times.
But Graeme, you may or may not have seen me post in the past that Peter Moore is saying in private it won’t happen. We’ve no real way to confirm or deny that but I was told by some one who met with him and I’ve no reason to doubt him. It was mentioned Kirby was what Klopp wanted. If that’s the case then fine. There was a suggestion the fans were being strung along. Now, if it happens I’ll put my hand up and say us fans are bellends. If it doesn’t I’ll lose faith in those at the top because I’d then assume what I was told was true.
Well, I guess we’ll see in time Robin.
The tone of Peter Moore’s interview was much more positive than the more cagey interviews and remarks we have seen in the past. I would be surprised if he was saying something different in private.
To be honest Graeme, so would I. And yes, they have been positive. I don’t know what to think. The bloke who told me definitely met with him before Xmas. That’s not up for debate. He’s a businessman and he’s not stupid. Put it this way, I’d be inclined to believe him. It doesn’t match the tone of the snippets that come from the club. Maybe he meant we’re stringing them along until Kirkby is complete although that wasn’t my understanding. It seems clear that Kirkby has priority. Let’s see what happens.
Guys I love the Anfield wrap that’s why I subscribed. I like the way you can articulate with logic and reason. I’m glad this wasn’t first time I listened because I would not have listened again. Some of the arguments about Klopp not getting another “body” in. And saying it is folly for Klopp not to replace sturridge. And our whole season could unravel because of this huge gamble. I made my point on the YouTube Comments section I don’t know that guy was who used folly to describe Klopps decision not to replace a player who was never fit for us anyway. If some fans don’t see someone come in when someone leaves they panic. Because it doesn’t matter about, price, availability, suitability, or even quality. They just want someone brought in. Totally ignoring we have two other forwards at the club who are at the club and know how to work under Klopp. If Ings was playing for a different club now your guy would probably say why didn’t we go for him. And to say our season is in danger on unravelling because we failed to replace a striker who was often injured. If our season falls apart I’m sure there will be much deeper issues at the root. And why even talk a about our season falling apart because it has done before. He must think we a just one big disaster ready to implode. He probably guys who prefers the transfer window to the actual season. Had to stop listening, I might as well be listening to some of the people you get on Talksport, the Kind of sentiment that lead some to fans getting on managers back. God help Solanke and Ings if they were to even miss a chance. Or if we don’t finish top four, or if the season turns any differently to how he KNEW it would finish, if only we had of got that Striker. Won’t be listening to that guy again. Otherwise, the rest of you are brilliant.
My question to you would be do you want to live in a world where everyone agrees with you? I didn’t agree with everything that was said but I certainly found the show very entertaining and enjoy hearing how others view our progress even though I can’t relate to it.
Let me be honest with you and explain my reasons for asking. I want you to question yourself because it effects me too. We’ve seen a lot of these threats on TAW. I don’t pay to here this view or that view. I can listen to Talk Sport for free if I want those views etc etc. TAW are in a precarious situation where more so than say LFC they have to listen to their subscribers. If subscribers say ‘we don’t want debate, we don’t want to discuss things and learn from the discussion, we just want to hear our own views echoed then it’s gonna be crap. I know my views already. I want to hear different sides. I feel I’m intelligent enough to then make my own decision. I just feel stifling debate and holding TAW to ransom is a dangerous thing and we should all be careful with the language we use especially when it borders on threats of cancelling.