A rotated and frustrated evening at Anfield gets a long look from The Anfield Wrap. The selection and the substitutions get examined in depth and at length.
It’s as much a conversation about Sevilla and Stoke as it is about Chelsea, though everyone was very impressed with the display from the Champions.
Neil Atkinson hosts Dan Austin, Melissa Reddy and Rob Gutmann as they pick the bones out of that.
Direct – Free Podcast: Klopp’s Reds Going Round In Circles
Excerlant show .klop got subs badly wrong in bouth games he’s Mutch to slow & why there not kitted out come on beggars belief that might a good topic for wild cards
We can’t defend..everyone knows this. So, after we score, we sit deep and try to defend instead of going at them. They score…we then think it’s a good idea to attack them!
There are too many frustrating and annoying things going on AND not going on, to put here. It’s actually making me unwell, how we are playing.
Criticised on Tuesday for not shutting it down.
Criticised now for trying to shut it down.
Seems like Klopp can’t win.
And how can he be “too worried about the number of fixtures”? Of course he’s worried – it’s a mad run. There’s still tons of fans who simply can’t accept rotation. They’ll talk a good game around it, suggesting they understand it, name the games they’d rotate for etc, but when points are dropped as a result they’ll still lose their minds over it.
Rob a great voice of reason.
Rodgers was slaughtered univerally for resting players in Madrid. Sevilla away is the equivalent fixture in this group away to the best other team in the group. Thay would have planned for ahead of Spartaks draw in the earlier kick off where a draw may not have been as “good” a result as it was in the end. We talk about liverpool and anfield being all about knockout games in the european cup and all of the travails of last year were aimed at making those nights a reality this year. And yet we are criticising klopp for going full strength during the week and labelling it a miscalculation.
The man seems to be damned if he does and damned if he doesnt at the minute in some quarters. It took a late fluke to prevent us winning yesterday and as frustrating as that was I dont think it warrants the level of criticism it has received.
Agreed. Rob is a great voice of reason and klopp sounds like he’s planning for the heavy fixture by making sure all players are fresh for the more winnable games and haven’t burnt out come January. Another reason why mane and Bobby were mainly unused. For a team with all these so called issues we haven’t lost since spurs and have played well for the majority. Klopp may have a learnt from other big clubs who prioritise the more winnable games to rack up the points. Have to add gomez has grown considerably well in the last few weeks. Playing well.
I’m with these comments.
Klopp is criticised at the start of the show for playing the same system and then criticised at the end of the show for not being true to himself.
Mel would have made three changes at half time against Seville to rest players for this game – apparently an example of Klopp’s poor in-game management. Imagine if we draw 3-3 having been 3-0 up and he’s made three changes. Imagine being Klopp trying to explain that to his dressing room. Imagine the grief he would get from Neil for trying to shut the game down and not being true to himself.
Thank god for Rob Guttman
Agreed. I don’t think the selection worked out perfectly by any means. But we’ve got 90 minutes every three days, and we let Chelsea score one in 25 mins at Anfield – it’s not the end of the world.
I think this ‘we’re no good in the big games this season’ thing is being overplayed a bit. In the same top 6 fixtures this year, we’re only two points down on last season (The Spurs and City away defeats, which were both draws last year). Chelsea did the same thing at Anfield last time, they are a very good side. In the other fixtures, we beat Arsenal 3-1 at home last term, and 4-0 this, Man Utd, 0-0 and 0-0, yet the narrative appears to have changed completely.
Klopp is fucking everybody up. All English players he fields, except for Gomes, are bench material. All Germans, except for Klopp, are defense minded. What’s going on here?
Strange comment.
Love these shows on a Sunday, really interesting and intelligent analysis from all involved and great to hear from Mel again.
Never quite got it going yesterday , said after the Burnley draw you could play that pod on repeat through to jan and beyond if Klopp doesn’t improve some areas in Jan and get to grips with his in game management.
Henderson worries me, I can’t work out if it’s the system which is leaving him far to much to do and leaving him exposed or is it just down to the fact he is not quite at the level we need in that area and as Captain.
Think it may be the latter but I really hope he proves me wrong
Thanks again to all
Great discussion – really appreciate it when there are diverse views, I think the contributors you picked for this one were perfect.
The only point I really don’t agree with is Neil’s about Sturridge – we’ve said before how X game would’ve been perfect for him, only for him to be completely ineffective in a similar game. Can’t predict anymore what sort of game he’ll have. I also think if he’d come on in the last 20 minutes at Sevilla or at Chelsea we’d have lost both. I wonder how much his selection yesterday had to with the stories of him wanting to leave in January as well – maybe playing him yesterday allows Klopp a chance to play Solanke or Ings against Stoke for a bit (Neil’s previous points about the dressing room in mind)… maybe they’re making decisions now for the January window regarding all three players.
The bit about the subs and the ref – it’s unclear but I thought Klopp was referring to Michael Oliver not the 4th official… I blame Milner in that passage of play in any case (I think Dan mentioned this also) that he should’ve booted the ball out of play when he had the chance instead of giving it back to Courtois. Would’ve given the players the chance to move up and allow the sub to be made.
Spot on Neil regarding Coutinho. I was yelling at the screen to pull him at 70, and 75, and 80. It stood out like dog’s balls and yet Klopp sat on his cards.
Thanks for that Guys and Gals.
I can’t understand why a side with so many attacking instincts,
Gets a goal and then retreats, ten yards deeper, allowing Chelsea to examine our weakest area.
Our defence.
Scoring goals, creating chances and giving the opposition something to worry about is defending.
We have the ball.They can’t score.
There should be a rule at Liverpool where we don’t revert to any defensive tactics unless we have a 2 goal cushion.
If i had a tenner for every time we thought we were able to see out a 1-0 and didn’t , Id actually own the club now.
Great show though!!
This is my issue as well. OK bringing Wijnaldum on is fine to try and shore up the midfield is a pretty reasonable approach particularly given Sturridge wasn’t effecting the game. To leave the Coutinho on until the 89th minute and not get Mane on earlier seemed very strange especially if he is worried about the upcoming schedule. I think there’s every chance we can go on a run now with a very winnable run of games up until Arsenal and a good schedule between xmas and new year.
Be nice if we could stop surrendering leads though.
I can’t believe you havent discussed Milners horrible performance. Lost possession in all the wrong places. Horrible first half. All counterattacks almost from CHelsea started from Milner loosing the ball in possession.
Can’t have a player like that playing in halfspaces when he isn’t good enough on the ball… He has no place in this midfield…
Did anybody else notice Mane didn’t have his shinguards on? Not having that!
Interesting that in the Pink & this show, contributors point blank refuse to believe Klopp when he said the ref prevented his substitution, despite noticing how long Lallana stood waiting. Clearly something odd happened & I give Klopp the benefit of the doubt. This should be a big deal as it’s not up to the ref to make that judgement.
As some others have stated, mostly agree with Rob here. A lot of impossible demands & hindsight insights. Also, Liverpool clearly can defend a slim lead against good sides. Just look at last season’s results against the top 6. Only Chelsea scored 2 goals home/away, Arsenal scored more but lost both matches, the other 3 scored 1. That being said, I think it’s fair to say we got caught between stalls in this match & didn’t give ourselves an outball. The subs & their timing were probably wrong. Because of the gloomy feeling around the club, any decent performance/result gets filed as terrible. I hope good will towards Klopp isn’t running out. We signed on for a long term build & that’s what we’re getting. Finally, can’t wait to hear what Sean Rodgers makes of it all!
What a miserable show. Thank goodness for Rob Gutmann.
Enjoyed Rob’s informed comments, too much shrill overanalysing around him.
Definitely.
Rob was agreeing with some of the criticism, though, and had no logical, believable answer to the lack of subs question.
If Klopp wanted to go to a back five, why doesn’t he send Trent on ? If he was concerned about Fabregas prior to the match, why is nothing done to counter him during his time on the pitch ? Fitness and form deteriorated rapidly during the second half in Seville so, once the same happens against Chelsea, why are there 20 odd minutes between subs ? There are a few fit, decent options on the bench during a period when everyone accepts that rotation is necessary and yet only one is given time to influence the game.
All relevant criticism which is being ignored by some because a point against Chelsea is acceptable. Football at this level doesn’t work like that.
Was curious to see the comments about this one as it was getting very close to that ‘the media will eat itself’ feeling with the incessant micro-analysing and hindsight questioning of decisions. Mel and Neil particularly egregious offenders on this occasion (although to be fair, this is unusual). You can surely do better than “I don’t know the sport science but….” stuff. Put it this way, when Rob is the one making the most sense something is wrong ;)
Nonetheless, it felt very much like 45 minutes of round and round a subject which could have been long if 5 minutes had been devoted to it.
While listening to it I couldn’t help thinking the title of the pod is perfect if it was a performance art piece.
Strange show of trying to criticise the manager for doing what he’s always been criticised for not doing, then understanding his reasons and criticising them again.
When it comes to rotation- what’s the science all of a sudden? Keep it simple like all winning teams do:
1. Play your best team available until injuries/cards or exhaustion on the pitch if you’re drawing or winning, then bring on your 2nd best option for those being subbed or system change.
2. For next game; Repeat this innovation- Play your best team available …..
It’s bloody simple. He’s got the Systems. He’s got the players who know the drills. Play your best and stop bloody worrying about computer fitness stats etc. Your eyes will tell you who to start and when to replace.
Plus – Re Dressing Room grumbling and whinging about not getting a game- ignore them. If they’re not good enough to take a 1st team spot – let them not Re-sign and / or let them go in January. It’s not a crèche – play to win your place.
Play your best team available to win every game and use the squad when REAL injuries/fatigue hits in.