THERE’S a strange phenomenon occurring around the fields of Anfield Road at the moment.
It’s something I noticed months ago and have been watching with fascination as it’s developed, while not being entirely sure what I think about the whole thing.
As the performances on the pitch have taken us from the depths of despair to the highs of record European victories and back again, the strange phenomenon has only become more apparent. It’s not something I’ve ever witnessed before and I wonder whether I’ll ever witness it again.
I’ve spoken to dedicated Liverpool supporters who have had the good fortune to have watched the Mighty Reds for far longer than I, who have confirmed that this is not something that has ever happened before in their lifetimes.
What is the strange phenomenon? It’s the seemingly unwavering support of a manager and the reluctance to criticise him for anything.
It feels like an uncomfortable sentence to write and that uneasy feeling is the main reason for me wanting to explore it further. Isn’t the unwavering support of a manager a good thing?
Haven’t we longed for a time when the Liverpool supporter base gets behind a manager so strongly that he is allowed ample time to correct mistakes and move the club forward without the constant threat of the rabid red hoards turning on him and undermining all the good work?
The answer to both of those questions is, clearly in my view, yes. So why does it feel so strange?
As I sit here and write this to help me to nail down my thoughts, I’m still searching for what it is that I’m finding so unusual about the whole situation. The most obvious thing is the simple fact that it just doesn’t seem to happen in football, especially in the modern era.
I’ve witnessed Liverpool managers win the Champions League and almost win the Holy Grail of the football league in the most entertaining of ways, yet not be adored by the supporters as much as our current manager.
Even when Rafael Benitez and Brendan Rodgers did what they did, there were large portions of the fan base who simply did not like them and did not want them in the job, which led to calls for their heads being quick to surface as soon as certain sections of supporters could justify it to themselves and those around them, usually after a run of poor results similar to those we have witnessed recently.
Yet, here we are, just over two years since Jürgen Klopp’s appointment with wheels appearing to be falling off to a certain degree and the team regressing on the pitch, and there is barely a murmur of criticism directed towards the manager.
I think what has fascinated me even more than the lack of direct criticism, though, is the apparent desire from most quarters to do whatever is possible to find other areas of the club to blame, as long as it means that we don’t criticise the boss.
The players aren’t good enough? That’s Michael Edwards’ fault or, if you prefer, it’s the responsibility of Fenway Sports Group. You’re sick and tired of watching Simon Mignolet in goal? It’s that John Achterberg to blame. Useless he is. Dejan Lovren hasn’t improved since the second Rodgers signed him? Hang him out to dry and pester him on social media.
And what of the man in charge of it all?
Nothing. Nada. Zilch.
Klopp seemingly has a level of influence and power at Anfield that Benitez could only dream of. He has chopped and changed his backroom team from the physios to the sports science department to the fitness and conditioning people.
He’s bombed out decent footballers because they didn’t fit his style, weren’t up to his standards or didn’t toe the line when it came to discipline. He’s had record levels of money at his disposal to spend and chosen not to spend it on anything other than his prime targets.
Yet when it comes to people wanting to point the finger about player recruitment, it is generally pointed in the direction of sporting director Edwards, who appears to have taken the role of the much-criticised Transfer Committee as far as blame allocation goes.
That’s despite Klopp having spoken in glowing terms about him publicly upon his appointment to his new role and despite him still being in a job months after the 2017 summer transfer window, presumably preparing for the January sales and next summer. Does anyone really think that if Edwards was incompetent at his job that Klopp would tolerate it, given his approach to other members of the supporting cast?
I’ve seen the Achterberg criticism surface again over the past few days, the finger being pointed firmly in his direction for Mignolet having a nightmare performance against Spurs reminiscent of his pre salvation months at the end of last season.
Does anyone think that Achterberg would still be in his job if Klopp didn’t rate him? Even more importantly, it’s not our goalkeeper coach who picks who to play in goal each week and chooses whether or not to buy a new ‘keeper when the first choices at the club do little to inspire confidence in the stands.
As I begin to move all of these thoughts from my head to a screen, it’s becoming clear to me that I think what ruffles me about all of this is not the fact that Klopp appears, for the time being at least, to be immune to criticism. It’s not even that others are being blamed without any knowledge of what they are or are not doing behind the scenes. What gets to me is that it’s just not very fair and is completely out of sync with previous supporter behaviour.
I’ve always said in debates about managers of our great club and others around the country that we should all really agree a basis upon which they are judged. Either they are ultimately responsible for everything that happens on the pitch or they are not.
What I tend to see instead, however, is the approach to the blame game being changed depending upon the likeability of the person in the hot seat. Some people just didn’t take to Benitez from the moment he walked in the door at Anfield.
Some downright hated Rodgers before he’d even started looking for houses on Rightmove. As a result, when things went wrong on the pitch, it was all their fault. I’ve been in many arguments down the years in which my position has been that that is absolutely fine, provided that when things go well on the pitch, full credit is given to the manager as well.
But that’s not how it worked in the past, is it? When we won the Champions League in 2005, I had stand up arguments with my uncles who said that we only won the tournament because of Steven Gerrard. To this day, there’s a huge element of the fan base who say Rodgers only came close to winning the league because of Luis Suarez.
Previous managers got all of the blame when things went wrong, but none of the credit when things went well.
And now? Well, now the whole dynamic of the supporters’ approach seems to have been turned on its head. Now if we win it’s because Klopp is a genius and, if we lose, the owners, the recruitment staff, the goalkeeping coach and some of the players are useless.
It’s absolutely fascinating to watch.
In fairness, there is another element to the phenomenon that I’ve noticed lately and mentioned to a few others. It’s the creeping into the common vocabulary of Liverpool supporters of phrases like “I love the manager, but…”. I’ve found myself doing it as well.
We discussed Klopp’s two years as Liverpool manager and the club’s owners on our weekly video “The Wrap Up”. Check out our YouTube channel for more of that.
In the grand scheme of things, however, if as Liverpool manager that’s as bad as it’s getting from 99.9 per cent of the fan base after two years, no trophies and repeated mistakes on the pitch, you must be doing something right.
So, what is it? What’s changed among us that has led to this sudden shift in supporter mentality? It can’t just be that Jürgen is charismatic, tall, handsome and funny, can it?
Some of you will say that he’s got a proven track record in Germany which explains the unusual levels of patience, but Benitez had won two leagues in Spain against two giants before he arrived, then won a Champions League from nowhere in his first season and wasn’t granted this much grace by the vast majority of the fans, despite having a hard core of passionate supporters.
Perhaps we’re all just fed up with five-year projects and starting from scratch, and have made a subconscious pact with each other that Klopp is the right man for the job and we might as well divert whatever blame we can elsewhere when things go wrong, because, ultimately, who else is there that we’d want as manager now anyway?
Speaking personally, I’ve mentioned before in this column that I noted when we got Klopp how I’d never seen the supporters so united in the appointment of a manager, and I said that if he couldn’t win us the league we might as well pack it all in and do something more productive and less stressful with our weekends. So maybe that has played a part and some of us just don’t want to accept that this might be another false dawn by acknowledging the manager’s weaknesses out loud.
My gut instinct, though, is that the likeability factor goes a lot further than anyone gives credit to.
I was only reading a few weeks ago a great article that echoed my own advice to junior employees years ago that the most important thing you can do in work is be liked by your colleagues. Just generally being nice to have around is far more valuable than most recruitment consultants will tell you.
Smile at people and generally be someone who others like to see during their day, and you’ll get away with things that miserable, sour-faced members of your team might not. You’ll at the very least be given more of a grace period to make mistakes.
I suppose it’s not dissimilar to the points I made about the differences between Phil Coutinho and Mamadou Sakho a few months back. If you’re a brilliant footballer people are more likely to give you the benefit of the doubt than if you’re just pretty good.
Just look at how quickly most of us forgave our little David Blaine for trying to force a move away. It was basically as long as it took for him to tuck another free kick into the top corner. That’s what magic does.
What I think is certainly the case, though, is that when the supporters and, most likely, the players, are so heavily invested in the personality of the manager, the mood of the whole club can rise and fall with his changing emotions.
I mentioned on the TAW Player show with Damian Hughes that I noticed the demeanour of the players drop in line with his body language away at Manchester City, and he seemed to be subdued on the touchline again against Spurs as we laboured to a second half 1-0 defeat against Spurs when the game was still there to be attacked.
If no one has already, maybe that’s something that someone should mention to Jürgen. More than I have ever seen, the entire club may be entranced by his personality. It would be interesting to hear from those who remember the entire Bill Shankly era whether this is what it was like, but that was unfortunately before my time.
Given that the vast majority of us appear to be under his spell, it is incumbent upon our charismatic leader to make sure that he demonstrates at all times the fight, desire and passion that he expects from everyone else, players and fans alike.
And just maybe, we can have a reasonable discussion about the role our larger-than-life boss has played in our recent run of poor form while still supporting him to get to where we all want to go.
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Likeability yes. But it’s also that the season isn’t even done yet. Title prob gone (but what’s new). Lost away to Man City and Hotspurs. Anyone pen in more than 1 point from those when the schedule came out? Had little run in recent past of hammering those but that’s not the norm.
Likeability comes in for Klopp here because he seems to expect more and that we should keep hammering those. Rodgers likely would’ve shrugged, told us something about how this is where we should expect to be.
Nature of those losses and form in others arguably tell us more. But think some fan heads are being done in more because Klopp has them seemingly edged right up to the precipice.
Good read but I feel a little over analyzed. Klopp is a media darling, everyone loves a bit of Klopp. It’s a massive factor.
Compare that to what Rafa had to deal with, and throw in how fickle many can be. How many of our fans just repeated shit they’d heard on or Sky, Newspapers and the like? Zonal marking, substitution timings, Gerrard being wasted on the right, doesn’t care about the league, doesn’t like English players…so many just lapped up what shithouses like never-a-fucking-manager Andy Gray would spout and use it to bash Rafa with.
But ‘cracks’ are already starting to appear, apparently Klopp said there’s not 5 defenders who can improve our defense. Did you know this? I mean, in case you didn’t every twat has repeated it on Facebook, Twatter like they’ve cracked the DiVinci code or some shit. It’s crazy how people use anecdotes to slam managers.
We’re at a tipping point right now to be honest, enough whoppers will eventually turn. One bad result at a time, doesn’t matter if there’s 10 good results in between.
You must be talking to the wrong people as many I know have been criticising Klopp for a while now. They are all still behind him, no Klopp out nonsense, but we criticise him.
How monsterously neglectful and blind is it not to bring in any centrebacks in the summer keeping be in mind we offloaded Sakho and Lucas?!
Bizarre decision by the manager who thinks there aren’t 5 better centrebacks out there.
jeez – no mate – not 5 better, but 5 better who were available.
If we didn’t know about Klopp meeting Van Dijk in Blackpool when it happened, then are you confident that other meetings didn’t happen? and players simply weren’t for sale?
This again plays to Paul’s column which maybe could also explore why Liverpool fans are convinced those not at the club are, by default, the solution to any problem. Its all part of the same mindset – which is generally driven, on social media, not by the individual but by what the individual has read or heard.
“Look out there and tell me five that would make us stronger. Five. Then you win a prize. It’s difficult how it is,”
“We have four. I don’t think we need more. In the moment I’m fine. We are open until August 31. We cannot force the things and we would never get a centre back just because (of the sake of it).”
In the mans own words.
You don’t think the second half of that statement contradicted the first half? that the second half suggests he knows what we need and thinks it’s useless getting crap ones and using up wages/fees when if we wait a little bit longer we’ll get the one we want? It was a risk that didn’t work, but maybe if we bought what was available we’d still be in the same mess now?
If you’re asking me to believe that there wasn’t an available and better centreback than Klavan or Lovren out there in the summer I’ll tell you to do one.
Go on Michael…who do you know was gettable.
Who was the missing piece?
Easy to say but difficult to andwer
Michael: I now wish Klopp put it like that when he talked to Edwards about the players he wanted. Maybe that’s where he went wrong. Or maybe it’s all his fault. Who knows.
If you believe that there was no centrebacks out there better than Klavan that we could get fair fucks to ya……but you’re fucking deluded.
Michael – that’s not the fucking question. We all know there are better than Klavan or Lovren. the question is who are the 5 you would have got? Who were the lads we missed out on? the ones you know were available and we fucked up?
Firstly, that is the question. Klopp, and seemingly yourself, are saying we couldn’t bring in a single better centreback than Klavan.
That’s fucking nonsense.
Secondly, it’s not about the ones we fucked up, it’s about the ones we didn’t even try for.
Thirdly, I don’t have a global scouting system, that’s the clubs job to find better centrebacks than what we have.
Fourthly, could we not have signed one, just one, from Howedes, Sanchez, Moreno, de Vrij, Kjaer, Benatia, Musacchio, Rudiger etc etc.
That’s just of the top of my head and without the benefit of a scouting network.
This fucking myth thats getting put forward that wasn’t any better centrebacks out there that we could have gotten is just that, a myth!
What about these guys?
Why cant we just support a manager that wants to build something the right way?
Seems as if having a rough patch or losing a game is unacceptable these days. If we say that we are different as a club from the plastics then we should act like it.
Give the manager his term, support him fully and judge once he leaves.
Its also a social media, modern society thing. How many who voted to leave or remain have changed their tune? or for independence in Scotland? or for anything? How many are willing to accept Moreno might become a decent left back after caning him for 3 season (albeit this might have temporary exemption with Lovrens “issues” but he’s still always in the fuck-up conversation for no reason)
Its become an inherent thing that people simply do not waver for fear of losing face in the huge very public, but anonymous, world of social media.
The best you’ll get for the moment is “Klopp fucked but, BUT…..”
The resignation among us fans nowrealising Klopp was no miracle worker after all is an hurtful one. Three decades after last having won the premiership, and still not going to win it this year. But Klopp is seriously the best hope we have for the future. Not saying that is bad at all, and biting his hand off will just make us walk further into despair. I mean its not like we should jump on Koeman wagon now he’s availible is it? And its also not like turning our back to the team will help any. At the moment there tends to be some fake fans posting negativity to certain players. All that does is creating more negativity. Klopp is no fool. Give the manager time. He is our best hope and I for one is willing to wait another season if there is some improvement each year.
Research findings in the management and leadership literature and business journals support your hypothesis Paul… Google “manager likeability” and loads of results show up from hiring to effective leadership. In politics too, Obama being a prime example – done some awful things inside and outside the US but he’s charismatic and a brilliant orator so no one talked about them that much.
I agree with the comments above though, no one is not criticising Klopp for one thing or another, including those of us who like him. This feels a bit like you’re creating a narrative to write a story that isn’t quite there yet, especially this early in his career at Anfield. What I do find weird from a section of the support though, is using the fact that he’s liked as a stick to beat him with… this I find a lot more interesting than not slaughtering him for every mistake he’s made.
Maybe people recognize that he’s still working with Rodger’ s broken toys and LFC’s failure in transfers has been the same for decades. Rafa got his own team. Rodgers did. Klopp clearly hasn’t.
But to let the owners and the board off the hook is shameful. You should be ashamed of yourselves.
There has definitely been a fair amount of criticism coming Klopp’s way since after the first international break of the season. Paul Cope probably just hasn’t been hanging around talking with a diverse group of fans. My colleagues at work who are Liverpool fans have all had some criticism for Klopp this season.
Even the most successful managers get criticised, no matter how likable or not they are. What is probably making more people disappointed with Liverpool and the manager is the failure to rectify obvious weaknesses.
Klopp isn’t stupid, he knows our defence and goalie can be improved upon. However there is a difference between wanting to do something about it and actually doing something about it. We ended up doing nothing about it and are facing the direct consequences now, conceding stupid goal after stupid goal, dropping points in games we should be winning, and giving 2 goal starts to a strong team like Spurs.
It’s obvious that the one constant is FSG failure to invest. We were starting from miles behind and £20m per season is poor. We want klopp to be given funds. We want FSG out – they are the problem
Spot on this was I’ve waited 25 years for a league title and yet again it’s wait until next year again we put up with this bull would Chelsea,man city,no I don’t think so but we’re in the champions league again yeay more money to not spend on players. If it’s not klopps fault who do we blame or do we just shut up and blindly follow the team we love into Arsenal 2.0 where they have through blind financial loyalty followed him off a football cliff. Maybe klopp can change things but I’d rather give Gerrard a chance and a few years than klopp solely on the reason the constant mistakes and mismanagement tell me what top manager had ever played 2 goalkeepers in the top league in the world and the best club competition,it just proves he doesn’t have 1 good keeper their is saying in the NFL if you have two QBs you don’t have any. I’d love klopp to be the one who wins us a title but look how bad he mismanaged the Euro Cup final and the defense he had to be watching these players in training yet he still picks them horrific….
Gerrard? simply switch off reading at that point.
Interesting read Paul. Personally I think the reason for Klopp’s easy ride with fans is the state and standing of the club when he took over.
When, for example, Benitez – who was also an established winner and top manager in Europe – took over, Liverpool were still expected to get into the Champions League pretty much every season, and had won 4 major trophies within the previous three years. Therefore, there was still a demand from fans that we continue as a winning, elite club. Benitez arguably made his job even harder by winning the Champions League so brilliantly in his first season – it raised the expectations of an already expectant fanbase.
In contrast, Klopp took over a Liverpool that, 2013-14 aside, had become accustomed to total mediocrity for more than 6 years (and only 1 trophy in the previous 9 years) before his arrival. As much as we all want and hope for Liverpool to challenge for the title, expectations had generally been lowered since 2009, and so to land a top level European manager was suddenly a major coup in 2015, when it had probably been more taken for granted in 2004.
To sum up, I think that amongst the fanbase there’s a feeling that if Klopp doesn’t work out, and we continue in mediocrity, he might have been one of our last shots at attracting an established elite-level manager. Think that’s why so many are desperate to still see him as infallible.
Agree 100% with this Simon.
I’ve had doubts about klopp since day #1 when he said he didn’t need to make lots of signings and could work with what he had. I remember thinking either that’s a soundbite to boost player morale or he’s a very poor judge of player (it would now appear to be the latter with the fact he started the Spurs game with 4 of the back 5 signed by Rodgers and Klopp has given the worst two massive long-term contracts)
And even though he has made several errors since and continues to make them, I am still nonetheless wholeheartedly behind him simply because I am afraid of who would replace him.
Such has been the slow, but clear, downward trajectory of the team under the ownership of FSG (“we can’t compete with x”; “such and such would never sign for us”; “we can’t dismantle our wage structure”, etc etc) that I fear the only managers we could attract are the sort of managers who appear as semi-joke candidates on bookies lists for the Chelsea and Man Utd jobs when they come up.
After all, if we’re honest with ourselves, why would any top manager come to the club under FSG? They would be expected to win the title with a vastly inferior squad and a fraction of the money to spend as our rivals, all the while trying to attract the top level players with the promise of half the wages they can get elsewhere. It’s an impossible job.
There are only a very select few managers in world football who could get the team to punch so far above their weight. And the only one I can think of (who would be willing to come to the club) is managing Newcastle. But our ever-so-learned owners and their shiny spreadsheets have deemed Rafa (a manager who got 80+ points twice with us under massive financial constraints) to be not good enough.
So what other option do we have as fans really, other than to get 100% behind Klopp and hope for the best?!
Never forget either that a fairly decent part of the support laid Benitez’s two Spanish title wins at the door of Hector Cuper and even in some cases, Ranieri. It was never Benitez’s team, he just took it on, just like he did with Houllier, that was Houlliers Champions League win etc etc. Bonkers
Plus… I think part of Klopp’s charm is that he is the first manager in a long while that other ‘top’ teams supporters fans coveted.
There were no FSW shouts as with benitez or Brenda shouts or whatever they said about Houllier/Hodgson etc. Most fans of other teams were gutted we got Klopp and that goes a long way in people’s minds. Its a massive status boost and so the slack that affords the manager is huge if he’s liked by other supporters too.
I’m an oldstyle LFC fan. Because of work not been to Anfield since 2005 (yep really). The whole modern take on football leaves me so cold. On social media just ONE person spites bile and all of a sudden it’s Klopp out (serious). I’m showing my age now. There was a time between 66-73 when LFC didn’t win anything and apart from being in Europe didn’t look like. There was a time shanks was on MOTD and reporter asked him about the letters page in the Saturday night echo and Shanks said classically “No I like to sleep at night.” Sure I want LFC to be up there to get better. But realistically financially we can’t compete. Having said that situation just now is not acceptable. Everyone is open to criticism Klopp no different. I do believe in a 5 year plan. We have sum excellent young players and maybe someone like Woodburn could be as good as Stevie G, so no pressure there eh. When Klopp became manager of course he had to assess the squad. I like the idea that Klopp doesn’t go for quantity over quality, remember Spurs, us Reds & erm Blue Noses tried to go down that route with no success. My big criticism of Klopp is that apart from Matip the back players remain the same. Mistakes on the pitch can’t be righted in training. Defend and attack as a team. I hate to say it but the mancs have won three cups in the last two years. Yeah sure we made it to two cup finals and you always need luck to win. I would like Klopp like to give winning the FA Cup a real go but that of course depends on how we do in Champions league. Finally? I think LFC could get top four. It all depends on Spurs I’m still not sure about them seems strange to say in the week they destroyed us. We shall see. But we are all Reds fans and we want the best. Just remember LFC for life for some fare weather supporters. YNWA.
Paul, your article might have some merit if this was Klopp’s first season, but he has been criticized along the way.
As for criticism aimed at other areas or people at LFC, yeah we all want to know what the nerd with the laptop is up to these days and what special formulas he has cooking up for January transfer window?
And what exactly has John Atcherburg done to improve the goalkeepers that were in place, when he was promoted to first team coach in 2011, and have been brought in since?
Re Atcherberg, here’s an excerpt that I find interesting:
“We did everything we could to support him to be the best he could be. There was no rush for me to move Pepe out but I felt he needed competition so I had to bring in someone.”
So far Mignolet, 25, and a Belgian international, has been outstanding. “I’d seen him over the last few years, he’s adapted to the Premier League. He is a brilliant shot-stopper,” Rodgers said. “John Achterberg, our Dutch goalkeeping coach, has been monitoring him for years.”
So Paul, I wonder what John Achterberg was monitoring then? And why if he has no say in things regarding goalkeepers.
As for Klopp rating him highly to keep him on, Klopp also rates Lovren as his CB, and did not need anyone else after the VVD saga, well not until the latest debacle.
Klopp IMO, has a lot of patience even with duds, and he defends them like any good boss would in front of the public.
As for criticism, Klopp is not above criticism, and many have already brought out issues since December 2016 when the wheels started coming off this team’s bus with all the known issues then.
Or maybe why Klopp gets an easy pass is because he gives you hugs and kisses even when you fuck up. Who doesn’t want that, especially now? :)
The solution to the ‘paradox’ (such as it is, if it actually exists) whereby managers who brought us actual success (e.g. Rafa) or near success (e.g. Rodgers) were (some continue to be) more harshly criticized even vilified while Klopp is not (allegedly), is definitely not to start harshly criticizing and vilifying Klopp.
Please, also remember: Effective, rational critique and analysis treat and evaluate decisions in light of the information available before the decisions were made/taken and logical conjectures as to how things would turn out (always remembering that the future is essentially ultimately unknowable and that there’s a difference between risk and uncertainty).
Klopp is on the record maintaining that the ‘way’ to deal with an opposing team that are dangerous on the counter-attack and are not shy of going ‘long’ in doing so, is to maintain a high-line for as long as possible. Poor, hapless Lovren was attempting to do that during his 30 or so minutes on the pitch vs Spurs. I still remember him vs Southampton in his first season with us, when Tadic posted him and managed to back heel him out of the play in less than a second. Lovren is simply not a very smart footballer. The more he is expected to be both ‘aggressive’ and to think, the more likely he is to make glaring mistakes (and also spectacularly good defensive plays; he did have one great, shot block vs Spurs on Sunday, e.g.). It is on Klopp/his staff that he asks of Lovren (and of the Lovren-Matip partnership) to operate too near their maximum capacity all the time for us to be successful.
When Klopp first became our manager, his expectations were much much lower of the squad’s capacities, and his tactics were much less “tight-rope” and “ambitious”. Last season, after the disastrous period where we couldn’t BUY a good result, he once again adjusted his expectations downward and set up the team much more pragmatically. It worked, it accomplished getting 4th place.
This season, once again, he (correctly) raised his expectations and has deployed (generally) the team (except for against Man U) without too much ‘pragmatism’ and ‘pessimism’. Unlike Mourinho, he has to be FORCED to be pragmatic and ‘pessimistic’. I love Klopp for it, but it is not a guarantee of success.
So, what in your opinion, would be a guarantee for success from this point onwards?
Honestly, the discussion around Liverpool’s defense is tiresome. Klopp is to blame, not the only one to blame, but I would say in equal parts with Edwards. I can barely watch LFC matches at the moment because it’s watching a train wreck on repeat. Klopp needs to hire a defensive expert to come in and fix the defense full stop, from tactics, recruitment and training.
Lovren, I believe he may need to leave the club in January but no one will want to pay his wages after his recent performances. I feel for the guy, but football is a results business and he is not performing at a high enough level to play for LFC.
Klopp statement during summer regarding there not being 5 defenders better looks like such a foolish statement now and it may contribute to his demise. He does get more of a leash with fans then Rogers and Benitez because of his personality but the good will is eroding fast!
This season has already become a wash, it’s disappointing that I have to type that before Halloween.
Is there anyone better then Klopp? Who would we replace him with? Ancelotti? Why would he take the job? He is not inheriting the quality of team he usually does, again, another sad statement. I would not sack Klopp, but give him more time to try and fix the defense.
On a separate note, a manager on the rise who will be managing a top club in England in the next two years is Marco Silva! Watford is flying right now and his teams are well balanced.
I think it is simply the fact that there is no-one out there to replace him!
I completely disagree on that: You got Rafa, whose defensive approach would be relished, as long as the results are there, as well as Marco Silva -and always until he signs- Tuchel. Doubt Ancelotti would be the right fit. Sean Dyche would be the cheap alternative to Rafa concerning tactical approach but like BR, I doubt he could handle the heat. Same goes for Silva. Pellegrini is another realistic thought.
Alternatives are there, but I believe he is still the best for the job.
Again, dont blame Simon for the crap in front of him. Most of those goals began in midfield and several players watched the ball go through thin and invisible midfielders and defenders. The ball should never have got that far. One on one, fair enough, fifty fifty but someone could have broken up the move earlier. Not to mention that the better, attacking team won on the day. Down tothe man who schools and picks the team. The buck stops there.
Not sure where you’re looking but there’s loads giving him a hard time without necessarily wanting him out. I think from some people’s view the reason he’s not getting *as a hard time as others is they wonder just who else better than klopp could we attract for numerous reasons number one of which would be the owners. We don’t sit at the top table anymore and some fans would do well to realise that instead of the entitled attitude they seem to hold.
The fact that there is no one – out there to replace him, let’s have courage to give him last chance till end of the season, while keeping a close eye of what he gone do come January transfer window to fix the defence wobbling
I agree Paul it is all a bit mad. Even when the club was on its knees in the summer of 2009 -Alonso gone for £30m cash – but we still had no real money to spend. £8m up front on a crocked Italian and £2m on an ageing former Rangers centre half. People blamed – and still do blame – Rafa for all that. Forgetting how badly the club was being run.
No rocket science:
– Juergen first of all isn’t that bad, but no Messiah either – bold statement, I know.
– Charismatic people are given more levee in general – not only in football. If successful, they are called “leaders”, if not “snake oil salesmen”.
– The press would be stupid, to write him out of his job, because they feed on him. He produces better headlines than Brendan and Rafa combined. All LFC articles have most eyeballs on many nationwide papers.
– He’s already done very much by giving the young players a chance. On the flip side, he might be too trusting, but you can’t have it all.
Klopp has made mistakes and whoever thinks he is some Messiah it certainly isn’t what he said he was/is. This shit comes from dumb fucks who veil themselves as supporters of LFC with some weird agenda.
As for his mistakes, I think he trusted his team a little too much to carry through his mission statement and has painted himself into a corner.
So which one of us hasn’t ever fucked up like that?
I think the Jan transfer window is not enough, because there is a chance not all of the players he/we wants will be ready to move to LFC and I don’t know if he has faith and trust (certainly not me) in the Monty Python transfer committee being led by John Cleese and his laptop.
I think realistically Klopp should be given the summer transfer window to figure things out. Remember LFC is not one of the big clubs any more, our trophy cabinet collecting dust since 200?? is sheer proof of it. Real Madrid, Barca, City, United, Chelsea, Bayern are the big clubs that win trophies, albeit with big debts too.
You Klopp is a better manager for this club or the right manager because he is also at the same level of this club. The pot calling by the kettle black, can’t keep saying yes he is the guy for LFC, and then sharpen your daggers behind your back. We’re all the same, just accept it. Throwing names of different managers is like throwing stuff at the wall and hoping for it to stick, just like some of TAWs articles. Just kidding TAW.
So I hope for Jurgen’s sake, he adapts to the game not necessarily change everything, but understand his team’s limits and work with them from there, to fix things here he can, expectations lowered, starting with the next match. Then let’s see how we do.
Up the Reds!!!
Sash, I am not convinced he has painted himself in to a corner. I think if people could step back a bit and look at the big picture, we got off to a cockeyed start because of Coutinho. We had plans in place and he screwed with them with his ill advised posturing, and subsequent lack of involvement in several key games. We have had one of the hardest opening runs of the top six, as we have played most of them already, mainly away. I do not believe we would get anyone better, and I think he will rally the season quite well even from how bad the league position looks. It’s too early to read much in to it. If we are still 9th in January, I might waver a little, but I would give him a couple of years in post, the current merry go round of manager sacking is a nonsense. We have a job as fans, to support the players and manager to the best of our abilities, being vocal in the grounds every time we are lucky enough to have a ticket. I am not carried away by anyone’s charisma, but I think there is an even better manager in him than we have even yet seen on his better runs.
Not sure how Coutinho situation contributed to our continued inability to defend set pieces and gift the opposition scoring chances.
Hi Mark H, yes Coutinho is part of the issue but as Michael pointed out below, he is not the catalyst to Jurgen’s oversight. He may not have painted himself into corner, but it is the impression based on the interviews Jurgen gave and mentioned what he needed and didn’t in terms of the defense. In any case my point is so what? He knows his mistakes and I am waiting like you are for him to step up and show what he is made of based off this:
“I think there is an even better manager in him than we have even yet seen on his better runs.”
Thanks for the article Paul but I think you reached the wrong conclusion.
People are giving Klopp more of the benefit of the doubt than Rafa or Brendan because he was almost unanimously everyone’s choice and people don’t like admitting being wrong. Rafa & Brendan should have been given more respect. Equally we should be showing more respect for Klopp.
A question that’s more interesting for me is “Who’s got a worse supporter base than us?”. Seriously I’m beginning to wonder if we aren’t the worse set of “fans” in the country.
“When you walk through a storm” … What a load of bollocks. What a load of meaningless, sentimental drivel.
Ask Dejan Lovern. The next line shouldn’t be “Hold your head up high” it should be “lock your doors and close your social media accounts”.
This is the same group of players that got us to fourth last year. The same manager who got us to a European and domestic cup final in his first part season. The same guy that we all wanted (the first time that’s happened since Roy Evans left).
And now it’s
– Get Tuchel/Silva/Gerrard (see above).
– Sign two premier league standard centre halves maybe Jonny Evans wouldn’t be bad (Paul Senior).
– See when Harry Kane ran all those yards to win the ball back, that’s what I want to see from us (Robbo – forgetting that since Klopp we’ve regularly out ran most highly trained, highly professional teams we’ve played against).
= I never want to see that arsehole playing for us again (me on Sunday – I’m just as big a knobhead)
We all need to look in the mirror.
I’m not invested in Jurgen. I haven’t pronounced that he will win the league, that he’s the next Bill Shankly. I’ve got no position to defend.
We’ve lost 2 league games away at the two best sides in the league. We’re three points off the top four. This is not a crisis.
He’s long since decided that he’s either going to buy top drawer players or make do and mend. It might work, it might not but it’s a long haul game and we’ll need to show a lot more patience than we’re demonstrating before we know for sure.
So how about we get behind him and the team and save giving them loads of shite until the end of the season rather than 9 games in?
That or we can sing “You’ll never walk alone” and not mean one word of it.
@Paddy, your comments always bring a smile, but right you are about all this. We’re all guilty about pointing the finger, when three fingers point back at us.
Regarding why Klopp and not Rafa/Brendan, I think you hit it closest on the head. It’s kind worryingly similar (maybe not) to how emotions ran high against George Bush Jr. in the US, and Obama won it not because people just needed someone other than the pathetic loon in the Oval Office and where the country was at the time.
Obama wasn’t a bad President, he wasn’t great either, but due to political constraints he could not achieve his potential, aside from being a good, branded President he was or tried to be.
Jurgen is a good manager, and as Mark H above pointed out he has more in his locker that if we are patient with him as he has been with the team, may see him work to make this club great again. He will like Obama need support from the owners, and everyone at LFC, including all us fans, otherwise he will leave and our next manager will be a Donald Trump equivalent.
Don’t recognise the analysis in the article at all. One thing that has struck me since Rafa left is that our fans as a group do not seem to give the manager the same wholehearted support from day one. Whether you agreed with appointment or not once we appointed a new manager it seemed we worshipped him from the off. That meant there was always a very positive atmosphere and the manager had time. Since Hodgson I’ve never felt any of the managers have had that same backing. Maybe it’s what happens the longer a fan base goes without success?! Do fans of a successful club lose that sense of arrogance and destiny that everything will be ok? Maybe that bond with the manager was broken with the appointment of Hodgson? Whatever it is I do feel the relationship between the fans and manager has changed over recent years and that does concern me.