SO, what are you going to do now that we have all given up footie?
I mean, it’s a bit of a blow and that, seen as we talk about it, think about it, tweet about it, sing about it and play it for probably 80 per cent of our miserable fucking lives but you know, we need to fill this time with something. As it stands, the current favourites for me are shuffleboard, sitting in boozers with no telly’s or phone reception, or painting. I see the watercolour challenge is starting again next week. Say what you want about colouring in but it’s never left you holding your head in disbelief as a side, without a fucking clue, manages to score without even having a shot. Say what you want about some divvy painting a bridge, but they have never left you wanting to bleach your own eyes to stop the pain from seeping in.
This is getting beyond a joke now. Seriously. We are getting had off, robbed, absolutely getting our pockets picked clean by fortune, the gods, whoever. It doesn’t matter who, at this point anymore. It’s getting harder and harder to believe that this isn’t some elaborate joke when you see The Reds yet again missing sitters only to concede a goal from some lad who used to be a barber and is so slow on the ball that Joel Matip, crabbing his head off, could catch him up and tackle him straight into the bottom corner. I mean, when did you last see a goal like that?
These Reds are in the business of kicking black cats as they walk across our path, walking under ladders while doing keepy ups with said black cats, getting the number 13 tattooed on their grids, and absolutely, 100 per cent, knocking the living daylights out of every mirror we have ever seen.
“Seven years bad luck lad, yer? What happens if I break this mirror by smashing this other mirror into it? Pass that black cat while you are at it and let me see if I can hit it over that ladder with this mirror bat.”
But then they say you make your own luck, don’t they? And it would appear that The Reds are heavily invested in “Hard Lines Ltd”; a 21st century corporation set up to unearth new and fanciful ways for teams to score against us when they don’t deserve it. Say what you want about the tackle and the shin and the bottom corner for their goal but for fuck’s sake there isn’t a chance in the world that it happens again this season or that it happens against any of the other top teams in Europe. Everyone else doesn’t get themselves in this pickle in the first place. Everyone else, reacts to the initial through ball. Let’s not kid ourselves here; it is shite defending. Shite. The worst.
How can your two centre backs, be stood with their only man to mark in front of them at all times before the ball is played, with neither of them deciding to get touch tight against him. Surely one goes tight and one drops off, don’t they? Matip’s reaction to us losing the ball is to run backwards in a straight line while watching their lad run into the only place he can hurt us. That neither centre half feels it necessary to go across and either block his run or block the passing lane is a massive concern and frankly offers a better insight into why The Reds have conceded the third most goals in the league, behind Crystal Palace — who have got 0 points — and West ham, than the thought that we are just unlucky.
Yes, luck plays a part but for fuck’s sake, seriously, our players are seemingly a massive lightning rod for our own misfortune. It can’t be long before the manager snaps that lightning rod off them, mounts them on the top of the Main Stand and sticks the said rod right up one of their useless arses while a cold and warm front clash overhead. Say what you want about Jürgen Klopp, but he shouldn’t have to tell his defenders what they need to do in this situation. It should come from instinct, from years of defending, from years of battling, learning, developing an understanding and a scent for danger. It should come from simple communication between the two of them. The manager should set the tone and the shape for their general position with and without the ball at all points across the pitch but he shouldn’t have to list every eventuality with a strict set of instructions for what to do in each circumstance.
“Oh, Jonjo Shelvey has got the ball on the halfway line, isn’t under pressure, and has one forward option on -– OK Joel, turn to page 445 of today’s manual and see that you should tuck in and BLOCK HIS FUCKING RUN. Turn to page 446 for clarity on what you shouldn’t do. In summary it is run backwards dead slowly while your man runs past you just to your left.”
Until our defenders are able to recognise danger for what it is we will continue to concede goals. Until we can stop conceding goals we will continue to drop points. It’s all well and good saying The Reds should be banging goals and are missing sitters but a chance at 1-0, or 2-0 is easier than a chance at 1-1. Daniel Sturridge, with The Reds winning, relaxes on that one in the second half, has a touch and slots it. Mo Salah the same. Until our defenders have got half a defensive brain among them we will continue to disappoint.
How does that happen, I hear you ask? I’m not sure you know but I would start with fucking off 50 per cent of these fucking idiots and starting again. Until then I will be passing the time in a lead-lined box fucking about with paint brushes.
Up the watercolour Reds. These real life ones are frankly, a bit Jackson Pollock. All fucking show and no fucking substance.
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REDISCOVERING THE COMMON SENSE WE SURRENDERED TO HOPE
As much as David Moores betrayed LFC by electing to cheat DIC out of buying the club and sending us on this unfortunate journey by selling to a bunch of coyote cowboys for £8 million more in tips, leading us to the current dilemma with another bunch of yanks – this time hedge funders led by a slithering scaly fella named John Henry – credit is due to Moores when he declared truthfully that Liverpool deserved to compete with the best and he didn’t have the financial clout to do so. Moores knew that however you spun it, you needed the best players to recapture scouse rights to glorious heritage and dominance. Therefore Moores attested to the fact that the sport had turned into a business and you needed sacks of dosh and someone with business nous to elevate the club back to its original state. So that part about pocketing £8 million more in choosing ratty cowboys over turbaned sheikhs can be forgiven.
But Reds need to recoup lost common sense. So much propaganda and bullshit has come out of these and the previous owners, our very own common sense has been drowned in murky waters of sewage. I lost a few scouse mates of esteemed positions in the Liverpool community because they felt I stopped writing the truth and was swayed by the popular crowd into simply looking at everything with rose tinted glasses. I received a message from a Liverpool university lecturer and author telling me that I used to be honest and spot on with my posts, but I had been swayed by the shallow myopic bunch who thought blind faith and treating the owners as synonymous with the club meant true Red loyalty “The Liverpool Way”. He assured me it wasn’t. And then he deleted me from his friend list. No doubt I felt hurt and knew he was right. I was forcing myself to see light when all there was was darkness.
“We have the money to spend. Whatever it takes to spend on the right players”.
“We can’t compete and do the same as Manchester City or Chelsea.”
We actually bought that contradiction wholesale! We didn’t even think to question it. We accepted it at face to face value. Internalised it!
Having rent boys like Chelsea and City isn’t the Liverpool way. Bullshit. Shanks bought the best and we spent most all the way through until Dalglish. We bought the names. We were the ones accessing the top players and we got them. From youths to first team players. We had clout and we weren’t shy to flaunt it.
“There is no guarantee spending big on big names will get you trophies”.
Yea, but not spending spend big or investing in the best will more probably get you nowhere. Look around you. When teams invest and do everything with ambition to win but come in second, fans do not complain. They know they could go tie to toe with the best and someone had to win. Not because they were lacking. They see two equal teams fight. Players need owners with ambition, and trust, and and confident enough to take risks. Not surprising why Coutinho will go to Barcelona.
“FSG rescued us. We are financially stable.”
Fuck off I say. If the purpose of a football club is to achieve financial stability, operate a bank, and not a football club. The problem is FSG is using LFC to achieve financial dividends instead of using financial investments to achieve football dividends, and which then brings with it prize money.
Here is an epiphany : FSG didn’t rescue us. They bought the club at an auction! They weren’t people who were interested in football and loved the business who then proceeded to buy the club from sound owners in the open market. They were like those who need cheap furniture and household appliances and procure these by regularly attending auctions of the property of insolvent people, organised by court appointed bailiffs to recoup debts and arrears. Cheap bastards attend these auctions. There is no “rescuing” involved. Those who really wanted quality furnishings to invest in proud new homes do not buy used stuff from auctions. And they certainly don’t buy these auctioned goods to create value. They buy auctioned goods TO SAVE MONEY. ESPECIALLY HEDGE FUNDERS.
Here is the sad part. If we beat Manchester United on 14th October 2017 we will lose our common sense again and think we’re on the right path.
FSG didn’t save the club. Most people know that. But, DIC weren’t the answer. They’re not quite the same as Sheikh Mansour. 2 years after the bid for Liverpool they couldn’t service their interest payments because they’d over stretched their investments.
When FSG took over the club was in a mess and that wasn’t just down to H&G. Years of not competing with Utd on a commercial front left a legacy too. It’s too easy to blame them for everything. Whether we like it or not football is a business and Liverpool operate like the other top clubs. Utd for example, are the commercial giants and as a result have £200m a year more to spend than us. Naturally, being the club they are some gets spent on higher running costs and some on higher wages because they’ve attracted better players but they have more money for transfers. It didn’t buy them success recently until they got a manager who is a proven winner. The fans wanted the owners out but now they’ve gone quiet and most are happy with where they’re at. Chelsea have spent £100m net more than us since FSG took over and earn around £30m more than us now. City earn around £90m more than us (admittedly, through over inflated sponsorship money which the owners have inadvertently put in but they’re the exception now). Until recently perhaps, the reason they’ve bought the best players is because they were bought out at the right time with the right buyers and offered huge wages. That led to success and the ability to buy better players. We couldn’t have done that 5 years after the horse had bolted, the landscape changed. You may say we’re Liverpool football club but for the players playing today none of them were even interested in football when we last won the league. It’s a catch 22. I feel that’s an important point because if we go back to 2013/14 we had a decent team and seemed on the up. Suarez became too good for us and shortly after Gerrard retired then Sterling wanted to go. None of us know for sure the circumstances but we wanted to spend the Suarez money on Sanchez. My belief is he simply didn’t want to sign for us. So, whereas the others have been able to add 1 absolutely class player per season where we’ve had to go for a lower quality.
The club is in good shape except for 2 issues. We haven’t won anything and our players are average. Klopp wants to change that and his pull is changing it. We did well to talk Keita, VVD and Mane into choosing us over our rivals. Where FSG have made mistakes is in their appointments of the people responsible for recruiting players. They’ve not been good enough except for a few. But, and this is my point of the comment, LFC’s finances show that like other clubs we spend the income we generate. There’s not been anything left in the pot until last summers window and the owners don’t take anything except around £1m expenses. The money we’ve generated has led to a kitty of around £30m a season. Chelsea is around £40m a season and Spurs have spent a positive net sum since FSG have been at Liverpool (i.e nothing). Arsenal’s has been around £25m net spend since FSG. I mention that for 2 reasons. Firstly, everyone thinks we have the worst owners and everyone else’s are perfect. It’s simply not the case. We’re doing what others are doing and secondly, last season the tv money went up by £55m for LFC. With the usual £30m net we can spend we should have had close to £90m to spend if we carried on our previous policy of spending what we generate. We spent -£5m. So, the money clearly carried over to this season giving us around £180m. These figures were mooted by the club to a degree too. So, why didn’t we spend it? It’s clear it was Klopp’s choice not FSG’s. He has too much faith in his average players combined with only wanting to buy who he see’s as the best.
Lfc are in a good place but it’s down to the manager why we’ve stalled this season. We were progressing nicely on and off the pitch. You can’t blame FSG for us only having one system or for our subs being continually ineffective. We don’t need another H&G saga at the club right now. All we need is 6 more world class players. I’d guess they’ll come next season because we’ll have the money for 4 plus Coutinho will leave and provide the money for 2 more. Klopp will have to spend it I think. This season will shatter his belief that his players can develop. Keita will be 1, possibly VVD, then Sturridge will probably go and we’ll get a forward in the ilk of Morata.
I just think, we can’t go blaming the owners every time we lose when the problems are closer to home. It’s stupidity and simplistic. The only magic wand is to buy better players and some money was there last summer. Even more money was there this summer. More again will be there next summer. Klopp feels he has an idea of the players he wants, he just has to go out and fuckin buy them. Changing owners won’t necessary help us right now or in the long term. The bottom line is, had Klopp spent what was available to him we’d have progressed again and your comment would be irrelevant and agenda driven.
Some really good points, I’m just baffled why you say with so much certainty that Klopp didn’t want to spend the money available to him, or if that is the case, that had he bought Maguire, for example, and not been able to add to that in January (FFP and all that), if that would have been a wise decision in the long run. Surely our scouts and recruitment personnel are as much to blame? In terms of the defence, I’ve heard Ake, Maguire, and Keane mentioned in the summer by our supporters – Keane and Ake have had terrible starts to the season, and Maguire was left embarrassed by Huddersfield. I agree Van Dijk couldn’t have been the only CB on the planet that would have been a good addition, but isn’t that the job of our scouts to identify the good ones? (And not just the ones the pundits on MNF praise, either). And maybe we did go after another CB, but he wasn’t available either?
Maybe Klopp is to blame, maybe not. I think Clyne’s and Lallana’s injuries are as much a factor here – and it’s only a matter of time (hopefully) that they can play again and release some of the pressures on the defence.
Hi Amy. I think when you weigh up all the snippets we get I’ve formed some conclusions. I don’t claim they’re facts but I do feel pretty confident in them. I’ll list them.
• Liverpool’s accounts show we spend what we generate minus the outgoings. I.e. We don’t leave money in the bank or pay dividends with it. Never have until last summer.
• journalists were briefed by someone at the club about the size of the kitty. My own research into the accounts suggested a similar amount before Joyce first broke it. My comments are on this site and dated. I was laughed at for suggesting the size of what was available.
• Klopp said in January he didn’t want stop gaps. If the right player wasn’t available then he wouldn’t buy. He wanted for Pulisic.
• We know he had the same view in the summer because he chose to buy Keita for next season rather than someone possibly inferior this year.
• We can guess he only wanted VVD and feel confident in that.
So, the owners only set the budget and possibly even, though doubtful, give the final say once a target has been identified. If we assume the money was available which from the noises coming from the club plus the players we were in for it’s a fair assumption. Those targets weren’t a staged charade to keep the fans happy for the last six weeks of the window to be followed by outrage. It wouldn’t make sense. Even the morning of the final day of the window the noises were still coming out of £150m. With klopp’s statements about the right players and what we’ve gleaned it seems certain that he only wanted VVD but although they were prepared to allow the sale if mutual from Saints, I don’t think FSG would allow him to bid under the conditions. A ban would be disastrous. I think Klopp thought that would change on deadline day and saints would buckle. If they didn’t I think he was prepared to wait. There’s a clue in that Klopp said normally if you offer that amount of money then you get your player. He said this window is like no other (insinuating the clubs had clawed back some power of the contract). The bottom line is no money was spent. Now bare in mind a few days earlier we bought Ox for £40m. FSG did not say you have to get him. They just set a budget. So, Klopp could quite feasibly have spent that £40m anywhere i.e. On the defence. So, it seems clear to me that Klopp had the money and decided not to spend it on any old defender. He only wanted VVD. Add to that a bit of speculation that Klopp is stubborn and has faith (maybe too much) in developing his players. We’ve seen his stubbornness many times and we’re seeing it now which you could argue is leading to some of these results. I do think both him and the owners decided £90m was out of the question for Lemar. It was too expensive if we’re being realistic.
The final clue comes from last summer. Every year under FSG we’ve been given £30m/£40m. net plus player sales. So, in effect our net spend has been £30/£40m. Why last summer was our net -£5m? What changed. Ok, we sold well but that depletes the squad. The answer is most likely Klopp had too much faith in his ability. He often cited that it’s not about buying the most expensive players. It’s about development. He came with that reputation. I think he learned a lesson in the January of that season and decided he did need to spend on the best. But, he couldn’t get them and wouldn’t settle for second best. The moral of the story being, whereas most managers just want a chequebook to achieve success. Klopp has repeatedly showed he works differently. That’s why I think it was his decision not to spend the money.
To reiterate. I think the money was there. It wasn’t spent. Why? Klopp has the final decision once a budget is set. He’s stubborn. Maybe he believed we’d get VVD last minute. He has a vision (which I can totally buy into long term but not short term) that to win the Prem you need quality players. He’s not a man who caves in and panic buys. He’ll wait.
On your other points, with our small budget of £30m /£40m per year plus player sales it has added up to a substantial amount at times. E.g the £114m Kenny had. The £117m after Suarez left. £82m the following year when that was more money than it is now. But, we’ve bought badly. I completely agree the scouts and the people FSG have put in place have been wrong. Ayre was wrong for negotiating hence getting laid off. We don’t know much about Edwards but his record isn’t great.
My view is if Klopp wanted to wait for VVD then he should have replaced Klavan as third choice. If we say he wasn’t given the money then it’s still fact he chose to buy Ox over a centre half. Too much faith again. That again suggests he’s prioritising attacking and that he didn’t see the critical nature of the defence which is odd because last season there were games he chose Lucas over Klavan.
I appreciate all this, but you didn’t really answer my questions… Maybe we did go after another CB, but he wasn’t available? How is that down to Klopp? maybe Maguire or whoever didn’t want to sit on the bench, even if we’d sold Klavan? Rumours of Oxlade-Chamberlain were around from last winter, how are you so convinced he was bought instead of a CB, and not in addition to the one we should have bought? What if Lovren, Klavan, and Matip were all stop gaps, and we missed out on better options because we didn’t wait a few months? Maybe Klopp had promised VVD a spot in the team, and he feels he should keep his word after all the mess VVD got himself into for us? All I’m saying is we’re all guessing, I don’t know why you’re so sure that “Klopp is stubborn he didn’t want to buy”… I’ve heard this from a few supporters but I don’t know if there really is evidence for it or if it’s just a narrative everyone has latched onto. I’m sure the money was there, I’m just saying maybe it wasn’t all his fault we’re short on quality. All he had to do was convince the players to come here, and he did that, that was his job. How is not getting players to sign or clubs to sell, or our scouts not finding him the quality we need, entirely his fault? That’s really my question.
Friggin hell. I’m absolutely livid with myself now. I’ve just re-read your initial comment and you’re right. I failed to address the main points. I misunderstood the question, haha.
It doesn’t really matter. Klopp is the boss. If he wants a CH then the transfer committee have to find him options. That’s their job. It’s their only job in fact. Can you imagine FSG ‘how come you didn’t buy a defender Jurg? “The committee said there weren’t any in the world”. It wouldn’t wash. They’d be sacked. Yet, they haven’t been. Also, I don’t buy this buying Maguire or whoever else was mentioned. There are defenders abroad who are better than Klavan and most would jump at the chance to play 20 odd games a season for LFC as Klavan will. I say Klavan because I can buy into Klopp’s only wanting the best but we should have replaced him at worst. So, the committee wouldn’t be here now if they claimed there was no one better than RK out there.
I wasn’t saying Ox was bought in place of a defender. I’m insinuating these people who say there was no money or he wasn’t backed are wrong. If FSG had said you have £40m to spend only and he was as concerned about the defence as the fans then he wouldn’t have bought Ox. Plus, as said above there would have been options. Had to have been. So my point is there was money for Ox and other players. For sure.
There’s no question that Klopp remained loyal to VVD. Again an assumption but Klopp is a morally sound bloke but also, he couldn’t ruin his reputation with other players elsewhere. One of his pulls is players seem to trust him.
Only an opinion but with klopp’s known characteristics, the money available and my absolute refusal to believe the committee couldn’t find a defender better than Klavan then it leaves me only one conclusion.
I guess then our points of contention is Klopp’s “known” characteristics (I’m still not convinced), and if another player was available and cheap enough for FFP and willing to sit on the bench and also better than Klavan, and whether our scouts/Edwards/the committee are competent enough for what the club needs. Hopefully none of this will matter by the end of the season and the team we’ve got will be very successful (I think we’ll be fine, because they’re really quite good when they want to be).
Anyway, nice chatting with you. Have a good night. :-)
Haha. For the record, I’m convinced Klopp’s stubbornness (if it exists, haha) will lead to him to be the one who wins us the league. I don’t necessarily think it’s a bad thing. I’m kind of on board with only buying the players he wants. I just feel angry about Klavan being third choice. We can’t drop Matip or Lovren ever this season and they will both get injured. Ps our recruitment staff are proven to be poor regardless of this summer. Night Amy. Nice conversing with you too.
What a load of baloney. Stop using The Wrap to spread your nonsense agenda. We are bored with it and you’re proven wrong so many times, it’s frankly embarrassing to see you desperately hyjacking this forum to spread your propaganda. This is a football discussion forum, not a twitter feed seeking to influence the uninformed.
Fucks sake, I don’t think threatening to paint watercolours deserved that response! Blimey
Excellent comment RR
For me the most depressing aspect of the past decade of mediocrity is the vast swathes of the fanbase who meekly accept our current state (eg, such an average player as Jordan Henderson being captain of Liverpool Football Club barely gets a mention).
There is a ‘we’re not worthy’ element to the fan base and I don’t know where the fuck it comes from when you consider we have FIVE European cups and 18 titles. Whether it’s in relation to FSG or Klopp or potential signings, there is a defeatist attitude to so many of our fans. “They saved us”, “xx would never come here”, “we’d better not criticise Klopp or he might leave for a bigger job”, etc etc
More and more the narrative of many fans resembles that of a victim of domestic violence who fears the alternative could be even worse. We’re the club of Dalglish and Gerrard, the Kop and Istanbul. If that doesn’t allow you to walk with a strut, then what does?!
It’s ironic but we would have been far better off if David Moores had kept the club. With the new TV deal and commercial activities we could easily compete for the best players if the desire was there. Plus we wouldn’t have had Hicks & Gillette. Personally I would have swapped the one league cup over the past ten years to still have Moores at the helm.
Flawed yes, but he at least he knew that Liverpool Football Club exists to win trophies.
Enjoyed that, Ben. Laughed throughout. (and maybe cried a bit too).
Why do people hijack every article into a FSG out tirade? Getting beyong boring now.
Top piece of writing again from Johnno – shame the comments get hijacked by these boring fellas.
It is boring mate but these anti-fsg types type their comments and run. They’ll never back up their rhetoric and say what it is they want from owners except they have to be arab and into oil. My view is they should be challenged and hopefully one day they’ll engage rather than going into hiding after they’ve planted their seed. Some people think the H&G saga is the standard procedure now everytime we lose or draw. No one wants it. But, in saying that, the comments section across the board do increase hits for the site because people enjoy debating.’Top piece of writing’ may boost Ben’s ego but it’s a meaningless comment for anyone else. Hardly creates a debate or a traffic to the site. So, it’s each to their own really.
FSG are certainly not the worst. It’s just I see their business model is a bit split at the mo.
On the one side they invested big in their man by going after Klopp as soon as he was available. Seem willing to put up the cash that Klopp wants (or doesn’t want depending on the window). They wrote down their stadium loan into equity to make the books look better.
At the same time they keep the books even (or close to it) by buying young promising players who are not good enough for a top4/title challenge and then sell them on for a small tidy profit. But this makes the squad look light when the season gets underway and we are trying to fight on 3 or 4 fronts with a good 15 players but not much behind that.
On a separate note but more aligned to other comments above – our scouting staff are dog-shite at the moment. Their strategy seems to be a regular day-trip to St Mary’s and that’s about it. How about spotting talent before it comes via Southampton? Ridiculous!
I think that’s a fair and balanced comment mate but I always question this buy young and sell for a profit. When they took over we were in debt and they did want to balance the books. Debt is bad full stop, it doesn’t matter if it’s on a person or a business. So, they did buy young, cheap and foreign. It changed a long time ago though e.g, Benteke, Clyne, Firmino, Lovren, Lallana, Mane, Gini, Salah, Keita etc. Ok, there have been some youth in Can, Origi and Solanke but that makes sense. All clubs do that. The only players you’d say we made a tidy profit from is Ibe and Stewart. That was just fate in that we speculated as all clubs do and they turned out to be wank. Chelsea have that policy much more than us and good luck to them. It’s smart. But, I, for one, appreciate if you hold those views it’s perfectly reasonable and probably comes down to opinion. What I can’t stand is these militants. I read a few years ago that a postal worker had been off on the sick for a year with a bad ankle which meant he couldn’t stand to sort the mail. They filmed him playing squash and he was sacked so the trade union tried to bring everyone out on strike. I love trade unions but that’s a breach of what they’re for. I mention that because it’s how I see the anti fsg crowd and why I challenge them. They’re abusing the power of the fans. Our job is to react when we get a H&G situation not trying to overthrow them when we don’t win a match or two. I take my lead from SOS. If they think the club is in danger I’d be behind them. But, when it’s a bitter lunatic with a warped intellect them they need putting in their place.
Peter, great comment again (the one regarding Mel on the show was too) but personally, I think it’s going a bit far saying they saved the club. My interpretation was a buyer was found and a set of motions was put in place by the people at the club against H&G and RBS. It was a strategic move to squeeze the life out of H&G. RBS would never have put the club into administration. It wasn’t in there interest. The reason why H&G claim it was an epic swindle is because it was. They had the rug pulled from under them in a calculated and planned way. If it wasn’t FSG who were part of that plan then it would have been someone else. Fair play to them but FSG as the party with the cash got the club at a good price and it was simply a shrewd piece of business.
P.s forgot Sterling but he clearly did everything he could to leave. We had no say in it by the end.
I suppose you could add Suarez at 23, Alonso at 22 and Torres at 22 into that bracket of reasonably young lads bought before anyone else could get them and sold for decent returns.
Well, we were talking about FSG so you can rule out Alonso. Torres was sold 3 months after they took over but it certainly wasn’t a policy of theirs. It was well known he was unhappy. Suarez is ridiculous in the context of what we’re talking about. He was so desperate to go he tried to join fuckin Arsenal. They got him stay one more year but he couldn’t be kept longer. Like Sterling we simply had no choice.
Hi Robin, it wasn’t a shrewd bit of business at all. That’s the Gouters rhetoric again accepted as an adage because of the amount of times it’s been used. They invested £300m initially on the presumption that UEFA FPP rules would be adhered to: City, Chelsea and the likes of PSG must purchase and pay from turnover ratios and not by gifting clubs with untold millions. Then UEFA learned they couldn’t push ‘money clubs’ around and over a couple of lunches reduced and dropped their own rules, fines and bans.
LFC, with its commercial income from its fan base, sponsors and TV would mean they’d compete with those other bottomless pit owners as the emphasis would be based on legitimate turnover. An example of the cheating was the £400m sponsorship of naming rights of a stadium City don’t even own!! Ffs! What’s that about when Arsenal got £15m from Emarites for theirs??!! City and only (again) this year PSG, put the two fingers well up the nose of UEFA since and now. FSG are marooned on the sea of devious, self-interested bullshit artists called UEFA. But nobody’s listening to that 180 degree shift that left them stranded with a club that lost its unique buying point- i.e. a level or superior Financial playing pitch if the Rules were applied.
What did they do?.. invest £125m in a new Stand, finance another £209m on players with higher wage packets and take the ‘brave’ move of sacking BR to bring in their preferred coach when he was pissed off by BM valuing Guardiola’s future more rather than choosing him in ‘15 to succeed in ‘16.
Since then, they’ve dropped the Transfer Committee giving him Carte Blanche with a 2022 contract to build his dream team. This team includes VVD and NK playing for LFC, not the likes of Maguire or Keane. They trust him and backed his decision. They said NO to Barca for Coutinho. They secured Keita against every other Euro club’s coveting eyes for £51m a year before he’s available as their £72m ‘17 bid was rejected too. They have VVD biting at SFC as they couldn’t ask LFC to re-enter the bidding after they hypocritically forced us to humiliate ourselves. He’s coming in January or June at the latest as you know as well.
Finally (though I’d prefer this discussion on Twitter but that Gouter hyjacked the forum and discussion emphasis with his misguided propaganda), Broughton came on TV in Jan/Feb ‘10 to outline his brief. The deadline for RSB was October. In the 8 months between, THE WORLD had the chance to make their bid, have Due Dilegience and buy Liverpool. 10 contestants emerged, but only FSG had the track record, proper finances and plans to match the ambitions of the fans, the tradition, and ambitions of our great club. Any other would’ve been a no-no or lead to a delayed death at worst or Administration at best. Legal lending contracts were forewarned and there was a real possibility of a repeat of Leeds United. Leeds were another club where everyone said it would/could not happen. It did. Portsmouth too and many others. The FA have used us before to make a point (Suarez e.g.). This could easily have been the same.
Upshot – FSG DID SAVE OUR CLUB.
I could go on, but in respect to The Wrap, I’d nearly prefer to do this on Twitter where points can be discussed within a different and more immediate fashion. Having said that, if The Wrap are ok with a continuation of this debate here without feeling it should delete comments (..:)..), then that’s okay by me as this is the truest forum for real LFC fans to cover all things LFC on SM.
To summarise a few things:
They saved our club.
They got the finances right to allow us to compete and attract financially again.
They attracted and signed Klopp and trust him to be The Boss to deliver.
They backed Klopp’s stances and decisions in who comes in and out of the Club.
They built the Main Stand, staying at Anfield.
They’ve further plans that’ll materialize when the balance and circumstances are right.
They are winners.
They got Peter Moore and his commercial nous as well as being a true Scouser. This matters massively- he could’ve stayed at EA Sports where he brought them to 96% dominance of their market!! 96%!! Fgs- who dies that?!?
They’ve gotten 4 of JK’s 6 choices for this year and Keita at least for next year. VVD is coming, we know it.
They listen to the fans, apologize and make changes we ask for where they misjudge.
They bring in Tony Barrett to hear the fans and recent the fans wishes as reasonable as possible. Who does this..?..?
They don’t treat the club as a personal plaything sacking world class managers on a whim – CHE and MC fans seem to be observers, not participants, in their own club.
They put up with the vilest abuse personally as well as to their wives. This is so wrong and then do string for these people personally. I wish Klopp would take a stance on this some day if questioned about it at a Press Conference…?
They intend to build us through Klopp, to win the League and Europe. Yes they’ll benefit, but who’d deny them that as the market responds to such an eventuality, not aspiration, eventually.
To attain this, we need to support not only a World Class dyed-in-the-wool LFC Manager’s vision, we need to support a World Class Ownership team too that could have been excused for selling us off for £800m- £1b for what they’ve achieved to date, but they have the bells to stay the course and see out their own ambitions. Despite the nonsense and abuse. Those ambitions are simply, to paraphrase Ferguson “ ‘put us BACK’ on our fucking perch!”
I’m backing Klopp/FSG to the hilt on their form to date, and it’s time we all stood back and questioned and took on these purveyors of half-truths and un-truths. Take them on here, on Twitter and every other forum to make them deal with reality and live within our LFCFamilybin an honest and non-abusive fashion. And that includes following through thick and thin, stop spitting on everyone’s parade just because we’ve not crossed the Promised Land line yet, and rediscover the Liverpool ethos of togetherness. After all, to cliche an ending here, none of us should be walking alone. Let’s walk with our manager and owners and fans altogether. We’ll be stronger for it.
YNWA , Peter
Appreciate your positivity Peter but I see it slightly differently. They were approached to make an offer and did. They were deemed better than Peter Lim and DIC et al and I agree. It was a complicated procedure though. RBS were worried about H&G and the bottom line was nobody wanted H&G to be able to refinance their loan in the October and so a process was put in place to stop that happening. Administration was an option to RBS if it failed in the courts but it was never one they wanted to go down for several reasons. The preferred route was find a suitable buyer (which they all did in FSG) and get control of the club. Once FSG (Fenway) were chosen as the preferred buyer then other attempts to buy the club were scuppered by LFC and RBS. My point is it was a messy affair and the club (rightly in my opinion) choose Fenway. From that point on the rest was a process for banks and lawyers to play out in court with various threats made. It doesn’t mean they were genuine though it’s clear they were considered as an option. I say they got it cheap not because of anything other than RBS just wanting their loan back but more so because LFC was a sleeping giant and Premiership money was about to explode. That was no secret. LFC was ready to explode in value and subsequently did. It was a smart investment but very risk free.
Agree with most of your other points
Agree money was made available in difficult circumstance but it was £30m a year plus player sales. That money belonged to LFC. None of their own money came in after the initially £50m loan.
Agree they built a new stand and loaned us the money for 5 years. That made sense to avoid interest. Personally, I want to see the Anfield Road end developed and I’ll be very content with them. They have about 21 months to start it.
Agree you point about Barrett and Moore.
Agree they’ve shown some ambition in their sacking of people. Maybe they’ve been a bit hasty though sometimes.
Agree they’ve given more control to Klopp than the transfer committee but obviously they’re still there to help.
Disagree we should be on Twitter doing this. I’d doubt TAW are bothered. The admin bloke just thinks we’re all dickheads for arguing but I don’t think they want people to stop commenting or for example just lick the authors arse. I can’t get my point across in 140 paragraphs so certainly can’t in 140 characters.
Agree mistakes have been made but attempts made to rectify them.
Agree mostly on your point that LFC fans abusing Henry and Linda on Twitter is the most cringeworthy thing ever.
I appreciate higher wages were difficult with our finances but the wages paid held us back a little for a while. We should have had Alli, should have kept Sterling by offering a new contract in May rather than November when his head was turned. But, we’ve now got 7 players who are on over £100k a week and they are going up slowly.
To summarise my view. Had Fenway not been chosen someone else would have. That’s for sure. We don’t know what they’d have been like so I think we chose ok.
They’ve allowed the club to spend every penny it’s generated and they give or take none which is good business and make us sustainable. I’d like to see revenues increased a bit more other than through match going fans as they tried but I think they’ve done ok. I think their biggest errors seem to be in the recruiting staff although we don’t know what challenges they’re facing from players. Klopp seems to have changed that and it appears he’s being backed with all the new tv money.
I feel a lot like you but I want a stand and I want trophies. If we don’t get trophies soon then you have to ask how good are all these decisions you mention as good. I think we will get some soon.
I think not wanting to sell Coutinho indicated they’ve moved away from the buy under value/sell over value model, but we are still feeling its effects from the past few years. However we’re still buying players that are not world-class with the view that we’ll develop them (mainly because we can’t afford the world-class ones), and unfortunately as soon as they become world-class they want to leave to a bigger club, suggesting we’ll never have world-class players unless we buy them ready-made. Other than our recruitment personnel (and whoever devised the ‘strategy’ that led to the VVD debacle this summer) I think the limitations of FFP is a big problem – it feels like we’re the only club who are negatively affected by it – and the market this past window as well. The negative narrative right now is the biggest problem though and the only thing we have control over, and I’m convinced that has an effect on the players. And that is my biggest gripe with those who call supporters ‘delusional’ when they talk about the positive things instead of incessantly focusing on the negative.
Agree with you Amy that we’re not buying the world class ready mades, but that doesn’t necessarily mean we’re not getting players that could be world class- if we get the right silverware and the accompanying exposure, perceptions about players change- you know that. Already there are many clubs that’d like to have a Mane or Coutinho. Firmino is one of Europe’s most effective forwards. Salah is turning heads. Henderson is recovering well and showing us how he was easily the most effective midfielder in the PL until Feb last season. Can’s already part of Germany’s future midfield. Ox was sought by Conte, and fought for by Wegner. If Lallana reaches last year’s heights, Clyne, Matip, and the youths of TAA Ejarie Woodburn etc- ..?!
Then we’ve VVD hopefully and Keita definitely.
Not bad for a team with no ‘world class’ players.
We’re only post-Transfers negatively affected by misery asses who want us to waste £1bn here and there and change managers until we get the trophies and all things the club does is viewed by them through very jaundiced glasses (I prefer rise-tinted myself :)) But also…
We’re only negatively affected because WE ALL BELIEVE AND WANT IT SO MUCH, so much more than other club fans who’ll settle for survival or the odd trophy. So much more than the rich ones who expect their beneficiaries money to deliver every odd year anyway.
We won’t settle for less than a return to the Top, and staying there. So until that happens, we can expect a few snarly cats in our bag spiking the ride, but unable to help themselves, coz that’s their way of dealing with the Long Wait.
My sentiments exactly, Courty
Just for the record – whether you support them or not or like to believe it or not, FSG did save our club from admistration and dropping 9 points that would probably have meant relegation, leading down the Leeds United route where everyone in the Chanpionship would want to thrash our more weakened squad. To suggest otherwise is ridiculous. It wasn’t an auction either, it was a selling process with a October/November deadline set by the banks and carried out by Martin Broughton with criteria agreed by all sides as well as taking fans views and club traditions into account.
Secondly, Klopp does have the money to buy the ‘right players’ that he wants, so no point bashing FSG. Unless he’s a bare-faced liar of course- but his form over 16 years suggests otherwise- so naysayers are the ones to watch about twisting things to suit their unsubstantiated ‘arguments’ (which they’re not, just rehashed nonsenses they’ve heard so often, they think it to be true).
I’m Pissed off that the usual rhetoric is wheeled out as soon as the Gouters detect a downturn in spirits. Pity they don’t follow those beloved ‘bottomless money pit, trophy buying’ heartless clubs that they so envy and carry their plastic flags for them.
I’m also pissed off that the silent majority are cowed into silence while these negative and dishonest narratives over time are accepted without question- if you throw enough shit at the wall, some of it begins to stick.
I’ve had enough of their horrible negative nonsense- support your team and that includes believing your manager and owners intentions are sound and so deserve your support. You mightn’t think they’re perfect, but they’re ours. And personally, I’m glad they are, and I believe they’ll deliver- Klopp and FSG.
Thanks for the article Ben. It certainly has yielded some excellent point of views on FSG, though I don’t have all the sources from the comments above to whole heartedly agree on everything, but I see their points.
As for the unlucky Reds, I am in the camp that makes your own luck where opportunity meets preparedness.
Gerard’s slip, for example, was that unlucky or was he purposely targeted by a well prepared opposition?
Was that wild ricocheted shot off Lallana against Swansea that lead to a goal some years back, lucky?
For me Benitez coached the Newcastle team the best he could to work hard and maybe win against a very attack minded team that left their defense exposed.
It took one attempt and a good pass to a teammate to help make that goal.
With all this talk about FSG and Klopp’s vision, I read on TIA of how Lovren has been playing through pain after taking a cocktail of painkillers.
I don’t know how to validate that article or the information but that is really sad if Lovren plays in this condition and FSG and Klopp allow it to happen. I have personally taken painkillers and to some degree it affected my judgement due to certain side effects.
So is this also down to being unlucky or could this be a reason for Lovren or any players for that matter in this situation not performing and making poor decisions?
A number of factors matter for a team performing well and to me it is far from luck.
As for the FSG debate on here, City, Chelsea have bought their history to catch up with Liverpool’s, while United seem to have taken a cue from them as they think it will benefit them as well.
They do offer the big money to players and so they can attract the players. They also get big, successful managers to manage the team, but I see this like I see a hedge fund company who plays dirty and knows the game in today’s business world.
FSG also are in that same game. They just choose to play differently. Will it translate into the level of CONSISTENT success and not a one or two hit season like Klopp had at Dortmund? Depends on who is picking their penny stocks and balancing the rest of the portfolio.
Timing is important and definitely one hell of a speculator is needed. Klopp is that appointed speculator or is it the transfer committee?
I don’t know.
Anyways United is waiting to turn us over and Klopp needs to have the team prepared to take those opportunities at all costs and make their own luck.
Up the Reds!