Craig Hannan, Paul Senior and Steve Graves join John Gibbons for immediate post match reaction after Liverpool have been knocked out of the FA Cup in the fourth round by shit opposition again.
Liverpool 2 West Bromwich Albion 3: The Post-Match Show
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Why have we all become so worried about Klopp leaving, or being sacked at some stage, or the pressure ramping up because he hasn’t won any trophies? Surely it’s more important that Liverpool, as a club progress? If Klopp has won nothing by the end of next season, however close, then it is right that he’ll be under pressure. We, as a fanbase are becoming too mesmerised by a cult of personality. Life will go on. We love our managers at Liverpool (mostly) but that is usually because they’ve won us things. Klopp in/ Klopp out, whio cares? It’s ultimately about the Reds winning and being a great side. Klopp will be fine if he stays another year, or another five.
consistency of management is crucial to success.
It’s not if you spend money. Chelsea have won loads sacking everyone
Outdated view. Real Madrid, Barca, Munich, PSG, Chelsea all change managers regularly and continue to win. Could even throw Utd in there with LVG and Mourinho.
“If Klopp has won nothing by the end of the season..”
At this stage what exactly do you think we’re winning????
Champions League. You asked…
It says ‘next season’.
Can you read mate, NEXT Season? Honestly!
If Klopp fails it will be time to turn on the owners. You can change as many managers as you like but when every transfer window turns in a profit, it’s time the owners went.
Sorry lads those positives…dear me. We just lost to the two bottom sides in the league. not to mention Albion actually scored 4 out of 4 shots!!!!
Plus Arsenal, Sevilla, the last ten minutes against City. Over two and a half seasons in, and we’re seeing exactly the same collapses and weaknesses again and again. The lack of any control or organisation in the midfield and defence is shocking. The unbeaten run masked this to some extent but what are ‘unbeaten runs’ actually worth when you don’t come close to winning anything? Do we really want Klopp to just carry on purely because he’s an ‘A list’ manager and gives us a sense of relevancy? I sometimes wonder if that is really it because watching our side since he’s been here, we are absolutely capable of brilliance but seem no nearer to actually winning anything.
When they were 1-3 up West Brom had actually scored 3 goals from 2 shots on target!!
This is the thing that I keeps coming back,
– teams seem to have ‘x’ shots/chances and score ‘x’ goals.
We may be really good at restricting teams to only having ‘x’ shots/chances, however when those chances come, they score.
Swansea was an example.
WBA yesterday was another. We prevented them creating clear-cut chances, yet when they did they score. Yet at the other end that does not seem to be the case. Even against Swansea.
Are both Fabianski and B. Fo(r)ster better goalies than Mignolet/Karius? If so we should go buy them both. Foster yesterday got every, single, cross, that we put into their area. He looked both comfortable and confident coming for crosses. The WBA defence played as if that was what he would do. Mignolet has rarely “commanded” his box in such a way. This was the case against WBA last night on a couple of occasions. And our defence plays as if they do not expect him to do that. This defeat was not down to Mignolet, not by any stretch. However, when he is needed – senior pro, top-six keeper – he is lacking. Foster stopped a well stuck Milner shot. Parried it away from the goal. Nothing near that from Mignolet from either of Rodriguez’s goals.
Wasn’t before but I am now in the camp of “we need a new goalie”, or two. 40m gets us Fabianski and Foster probably. And for another 25m I would just go buy Rodriguez. Much more mobile than some of our midfield – but that is just a knee-jerk due to the disappointment of losing …
It’s an organisational systemic thing for why we are so bad at set pieces and defending.
Teams with worse defenders than ours defend much better than us.
What does that say?
Really don’t think set pieces is an organisational thing, I reckon it is a nerves/confidence thing. Been the same since Rodgers, with different systems and players, it has become endemic to the team culture and I don’t think the crowd helps. Players get sucked into the ball wanting to help out and clear the danger only to leave us vulnerable to the second ball.
The keepers are shit. Mignolet has never been near good enough and blaming the crowd is out of order. Tickets aren’t cheap and watching Mignolet game in game out fuck up is painful.
Not sure how it can be a nerves/confidence thing when it’s been happening over the course of seasons with various different personnel who previously have been decent defenders.
Teams with worse defenders than ours defend set pieces much better.
great analysis lads. agreed with most of the comments and thoughts expressed.
VAR and big screens will give the correct decisions but it will ruin the drama of a football match especially at being in a ground like Anfield. The intensity will be lost not just in the stands but on the park too. we will have managers calling time out next..
It’s just the FA cup! It’s not 20years ago! It’s worthless…if it wasn’t, Arsenal and Manure Jose and Wenger would be revered instead of ridiculed…
If we won FA cup finished outside top 4 and lost quater final CL round…then Klopp would have some questions regarding his future…
Top 4…CL semis…purchase Quincy Promes now and dries Mertens in the summer…
Klopp is on path to challenging LFC vs. Everyone…
WBA may have won…? Sustaining 3 longish term injuries to key players…and they will lose in the next round of FA cup; while simultaneously managing to guarantee relegation from EPL for their efforts…
Let em celebrate their “famous victory” and we will concentrate efforts on CL progress…
While Rivals dilute themselves chasing shinny things…of lesser relevance…
Dries Mertens wont pick Manchester because they have an FA cup…
No way jose…he will pick LFC, because of Klopp and a run at CL trophy
Just write off another trophyless season then?
If your defence is iffy then you really do need your midfield to pass well and look after the ball, something difficult at the best of times if you insist on playing or only have the personnel to play at a hundred miles an hour at all times.
We only looked like a vaguely competent team once Henderson came on. Psychologically, I got the impression that the players assumed scoring early meant the job was done. Yet again, they seemed shell-shocked when the opposition actually reacted well. Maybe they’d looked at the league table beforehand, but they should have realised after last Monday that just because a team is bottom doesn’t make it the worst in the league on current form.
Firstly, well done for doing this show, I went straight to bed and still woke up miserable.
We should have never have let that guy leave.. what was his name… no not that one Pep Lijnders, Klopp has seemed miserable since he left. Mind you, I would be miserable with some of the players he has and has given so many chances too. They just keep letting him down. I have never said this before but that really needs to be the last game for the Keeper, Left Back and Gini. There I said it.
I really liked the front 3, they worked hard and play so well together, I actually enjoyed the interplay they had at times. And if VAR hadn’t stopped the flow they may have broken through more in first half. Just needed something else to make them click tonight. I think Ings worked hard and it will come for him.
I know we have lost against the bottom two but I think both those teams have played above themselves and actually had some players putting World class ish performances in. And agree with Micha that was WBA cup final and they worked so hard they broke 3 players.
Agreed with comments about grown up midfield subs being night and day from Gini and Can.
I’m not quite as annoyed as I was last night but I do worry that perhaps Klopp is taking too long to build ‘his’ side. We desperately need a keeper and an effective, deep playmaker who can close space but crucially, can also either dictate play really well, or at the least ‘destroy’ and break up attacks. I don’t think that’s Keita either, I believe he’s more of a creator and a ball carrier. I think it would be good to bring Lemar in before weds’ as it would give everyone a lift and he would give us another left forward , or midfield option. If we truly are serious about ever competing and winning the league ever again then more must be done. We will never do it with a net spend of £30m every year, however good a coach Klopp is.
Klopp has now been at the club for 2 and a half years.
Since before then we’ve needed a quality keeper, quality centrebacks and a quality holding midfielder. We brought in 1 quality centreback (we hope) in 5 transfer windows.
Yea I’d say he’s taking far too long to address these glaring weaknesses.
Is there a side that breaks so completely as a whole as Liverpool when out under pressure of one sort or another ? Most of our competitors will (as is the nature of the game) have on or maybe two out of form individuals yet we manage to a) collapse as an entire unit or b) have individuals oscillating between world class and Sunday League (Gini).
The complete malfunctioning lines between defence and midfield is a recurring aspect of these defeats. And worse that ther is no ‘scruff of the neck’ intervention.
This is a new low. Klopp status quo mantra holds no further water. Im off to Porto and fucking dreading it if I’m being honest.
Sorry but we don’t have ANY ‘world class’ players, we’ve just sold the only one we had! Gini is more Sunday League and he never has been or never will be ‘world class’. Our players, young players, don’t even have the potential to be world class. We are a shambles, the whole club. We are a selling club – end. of. story.
If the club really had any ambition, then they would have addressed the problems that were occurring 10 years ago, but they haven’t! FSG sell to buy – that is their philosophy. They don’t care about winning the league, why would they? they turn out a massive profit every year competing for 4th! why would you gamble and give the manager 300 million (which is what is needed) to go and buy the players we need for the first team? All this rubbish about investing in the future? how many years ago did I hear that? oh yeah, that’s right, about 30 years ago, yet in that time, how many players have we produced to make the first 11 consistently? about 5 or 6? that’s a shambles by any stretch of the imagination. You cannot win the league or be successful in winning silverware when you have a team full of mediocrity! simples. Everyone in world football knows where we need the players, yet the manager can’t see it? C’mon, he knows what he needs to do – the owners won’t give him the money and they use the press to pacify the fans. America is built on propaganda and so is FSG! all I hear when I speak to other fans is ‘no way, they’ve spent money’… Really? look into the figures, our net spend is basically laughable compared to the other big teams, and we, the fans, class LFC as a big team, but we won’t spend the money to compete with the big teams on the field?. Rafa was right, the club will never win anything with that mentality. Turning out a profit of 380+ million on an annual basis when you have a net spend of 30 million (since klopp’s come in) is bloody abysmal from the fans’ point of view. That’s why we have water carriers at the club…the likes of Emre Can, Gini Wijnaldum, Alberto Moreno, both GK’s…players like Danny Ings (no disrespect to Ingsy, I know he’s been injured, but really – we are talking about winning the league here peeps), these players are absolutely nowhere near the needed quality. Like I said previously, I’ll always support whoever crosses that line in a red shirt, but looking at it through unbiased eyes and with a glint of reality, the majority of personnel at the club are well below par. One more defeat or collapse like that and the season is all but over…in January…once again!
Good post Richard. I like Klopp very much but even I am starting to examine my own motives. Is Klopp so popular because we all truly believe he’ll win us the league, or is it mainly because we know we have one of the top 2-3 high profile managers in the world and we are basking in the ‘status’ we believe it gives us? I really do wonder because I’ve heard so many times Liverpool fans say things like ‘well if Klopp fails, where do we go from there? The answer is, we go on, we appoint someone else. Conte was less fashionable but look what he did last season, and with a less than stellar Chelsea line up. Don’t get me wrong, I badly want Klopp to succeed but I believe that too many of us have made him ‘bigger’ almost than the club in our minds.
Richard – thanks for that. Just to be clear I said socialites between – world class and Sunday League. Clearly that isn’t net net world class.
Your highlighting of FSG process is bang on. And it hurts to read it.
*oscillates – clearly my spell check not used to such grandiose words
I agree, it’s painful to write it. For me it doesn’t really matter who the manager is…the club will not spend what it takes to be successful. You can’t win anything without spending, big spending. There’s a reason the clubs who spend the most are the ones who win the most or maintain success for more than a ‘one off’ season!
We make 380million profit?
I can understand the emotion and motives of the post but I think it’s going too far to suggest the Owners are at fault on this one. Yes they averaged a £30m net spend while trying to stabilise the chaos they inherited and the bad buys they allowed in the early years- but in this Klopp era, we’ve gotten CL status with his minimal spending gamble and overall improved the team quality of play without depending on ridiculous Marquee purchases (the £15m over £60m City bid apology/no auction premium for VVD aside:)). I disagree we’ve sold our only Wirld Class player because within the squad we have decent players that may well become WC recognised (Coutinho wasn’t recognised as such until more recently) – VVD SM RF SM and Keita to come. Plus there’s decent ones in addition when all are fit and on their game. It’s too easy to use 2 defeats as a stick to beat the Owners with, yet where was the praise for them during the 18 match unbeaten run with some pretty good performances?? Personally, I believe our team has sufficient quality right now to beat the Swansea’s and WBA’s of this world. Klopp erred by trusting Can and Gini would make up for their Swansea awfulness and it wasn’t until Henderson and Milner came on that we looked like a serious team again . We have the money to add more quality that’s needed to be better and more dominant – and Klopp consistently insists that money’s not the issue so it’s obvious it’s he himself that’s building and gambling with time on gettting his ‘right players’ as soon as their clubs/those players become available. In the meantime, he just has to choose the ‘right players’ now from a very talented squad he’s built to get back on track and show us and the world again why we can go 4-1 up against the Manchester City’s of this world and not lose focus in midfield and defence to then concede 6 more goals thereafter in the remaining minutes and the next 2 games. Crap performances from those who can do better is not a relevant reason to knock FSG. They’ve gotten things wrong and right but in this managerial stint – they’re doing what Klopp wants – so he’s the one who knows where the fault lies- on the pitch getting more out of the 20 lads that’re better than the last two and a third matches showed. Peter
Peter, I know Klopp is insistent the money is there,but surely, if it truly was there he would have addressed the problem by now, No? I mean he’s an intelligent man and an experienced coach/manager, surely, you’d look at things as a manager and say, well we concede soft goals, time and time again! same situations that’s ‘not too cool’. He’s publicly come out and said, ‘it’s not like we don’t work on it’ and ‘we know what the opposition is going to do’, but we STILL can’t sort it out?? I mean if that’s what you’re saying, then surely we should all be really worried right? City, last year, great going forwards but as bad as us at the back,everyone knew what needed to be done and what does Pep do? addresses the situation – he goes and buys two full backs and a keeper (as well as other quality additions to add to the attacking threat), the club give the manager what he needs to do the job and he delivers! No manager in the world (Barring one) is going to come out and publicly say ‘the owners wont give me the money I need’. If we really had the money, then we would have paid the 80 million RB wanted for keita, instead of brokering a deal for 60 odd in a years’ time, and we also wouldn’t be sitting on the 70 million that we’ve just pocketed after both recent transfers. My brother in law’s been telling me for years, those yanks, they’ll bank the profit! they’ll use the media to rumour some story about this player and that player coming in, but it will amount to nothing! I’ve been dismissive, but you cannot argue that since Klopp has been in the transfer window has been nothing short of shambolic for us!
I know you mentioned Henderson and Milner, Gini and Can…I mean these are squad players but yet they are our backbone! not one of these players get anywhere near the first 11 in the top 6 sides (apart from us), let alone 2 or 3 at once…the GK’s, both of them, don’t get anywhere in the top 10, maybe not at all… I mean, I’m not just having a moan, I’m watching the games and I’m thinking to myself…’is this the best we can do? seriously?…and I’m telling you, I am not alone, there are literally thousands of fans that watch from the terraces, like me, who have the same opinions!
Listen, it’s actually not easy to write this…I’m as proud as you to be a Liverpool fan, but look at it without that pride you’re holding onto and you’ll see the same thing I will. The players we have simply are not good enough to compete for honours (and I mean the league title), and until we spend some REAL money, we’ll continue to be battling it out for 4th whilst having a stab at the champs league, I mean that’s not good enough – that’s what Arsenal do!
@Richard Evans
What did you write after we beat Manchester City? or had an 18 game unbeaten streak?
The season wasn’t over last season. We made it to 4th place, granted with some luck fro Arsenal, but we did.
We still have CL to play for, as insurmountable as it may seem, it is worth looking forward to. Remember we hardly managed to qualify but we’re in the knock-out phase.
I suggest we wait until the season is over to see how we do before the FSG, Klopp ridiculing litany. Whether you like it or not, Klopp and FSG will be here another season, and most likely by then he will be under due pressure first, if he doesn’t deliver.
We need to stay positive and give the team and Klopp a chance this season.
At last a more measured response from Sash and Redsup, both spot on for me, two great posts.
The only people who seem to losing there heads are our own support which is crackers after an 18 game unbeaten run.
I would be absolutely fine if people wrote these posts after the City game but the same people who are lambasting the team now where going on how wonderful the team were two weeks ago after Everton , City and VVD being signed.
On buying this player and that player, as Melisa has eluded to time after time it is anything but easy for us, world class players want world class money and world class personal terms and conditions , we can compete to a degree but we have to box a little more cleaver than the likes of Barca, Utd, City and Madrid to name a few, that is the reality of where we are and will make winning all the more sweeter when we do.
@Sash…I didn’t really write anything after the City game! Exceptional game and being the only team to beat City says something of what we are about. But what’s the point of beating City like that, and then losing the two following games to the bottom two sides in the league?
I mean, don’t get me wrong, losing 2 games out of 20 isn’t bad at all…it’s the manner of the losses, and knowing why we lost – it’s no surprise as we’ve been conceding the ‘same goal’
All season! Mistakes, set pieces etc!
Don’t get me wrong, I am looking forward to the Champs League and Porto will be a test, but let’s say we lose, we bring nobody else in, and then we don’t qualify for the UCL next summer? Is it then we’ll say ‘well, the current crop aren’t good enough?’ Because that is just as likely to happen as it is for us to qualify really! We’ve capitulated before, more than once!
I really hope they turn it around, and if they do, I’ll be the first to eat humble pie and hold my hands up to it, but realistically, with the current crop of players we have – I just don’t see it!
Klopp on the other hand has done amazingly well with the players at his disposal (two finals and UCL qualification), but sooner or later the quality shines through, and we simply don’t currently have enough to make that cruical next step!
Of course it’s disappointing to be knocked out of the cup especially on the back of losing to Swansea. But personally I’m a huge Klopp fan and I love watching this team play when its flying. I think part of the problem is we just don’t have a squad capable of performing like that for fifty odd games a season. Too many individuals are still mentally fragile, and I don’t know where you lay the blame for that. Is it coaching or recruitment? We’re never going to be a city or united in terms of spending, so inconsistency is par for the course with a weaker squad. I think as fans we should try to make peace with this. As a club, under Klopp and FSG, I have no doubt we’ll win trophies, I just think it’s going to take time. I understand nobody wants to wait for anything, of course we want to be the best we can be today, why should we wait until tomorrow? I just think that even if it takes five years Liverpool will lift that nineteenth league title and probably a cup or two along the way. It’s not because of cult Klopp or blind hope, I really think the way we’re developing is exciting and a couple of bad results shouldn’t detract from this. Take away the last two games and our season was looking great. So let’s just have a good go at the champions league, secure that fourth place and in the summer I’m sure several more key issues in the squad will be improved. It’s not the end of the world even if it feels like it.
Oh Be . Don’t let it come to this – EVER.
‘Have a good go’ . HAVE A JOLLY GOOD GO.
‘Perhaps next year’.
Are we now just supported by a generation of fans to whom success is just a reference in a Rothman’s Soccer Digest.
This maybe the most depressing post of them all.
‘HAVE A JOLLY GOOD GO’
I would argue that ‘mentally fragile’ really means, not good enough! and the season ‘looking great’ is another comment that really baffles me? I do believe in positivity, but to be frank, you can’t be positive when the same mistakes are made, over and over and over. Only Liverpool can be 4-1 up and then almost draw 4-4 with 10 mins to go. It’s not a one off, it happens time and time again. This is because the team players are simply not good enough, Big players produce big performances, consitently!
We are out of both domestic cups at the 4th round stage, we’ve thrown so many points away to the stage where we are now battling for fourth, we’ve sold our best player and we are 18 points off the top spot (in January). We concede ‘THAT Goal’ nearly every bloody game, sometimes two or three times per game – it’s like groundhog day…where is the development? are we talking about scoring goals? if it was only about scoring goals then maybe you’ve a point! but if it’s about being successful as a team – which means silverware, then we are miles away.
But it’s ok, because we’ll win the champions league! – seriously? do we really think that we can win the champions league? sometimes you have to take those red blinkers off and look at the situation like it is, with clarity and fact.No one, in history, ever, has won anything when they concede 50 goals a season! know the champs league is a knock out comp, and anything can happen. We can’t win the champions league with the midfield and defence/GK that we currently have, and if we did, I would be amazed. The 2005 team, in an attacking sense are nowhere near this team going forward, but we had a fantastic midfield and a great defence – plus we had Gerrard as capt and not a different person every game!
Current players are not good enough – it is as simple as that!
I applaud your belief and it’s what the LFC brand is built on. However, I’m not sure where you get the idea that we’ll be league champs in the next 5 years? we’ve been saying that for as long as I can remember – it’s time to let go of that as it is totally ‘blind hope’.
The fans have actually accepted that 4th place is ‘good enough’. 3 or 4 years ago we were laughing at Arsenal because that’s what they do! FSG are content with that! that’s the problem!
The answer to the problem is simple – SPEND. Spend money on quality players. I don’t mean sell to buy. I mean spend 200-300 million in the summer. 5 transfer windows for Klopp, only just bought a CB that is at the right quality, but that signing will be pointless if he does’t buy another CB of the same calibre, a GK that can actually do something and a midfield that can actually play both ways!
What other team in the top 6 goes out and buys a CB for less than 4 million, and then gets one on a free? (Klavan & Matip?) Some of these players are championship standard man!
But, after all’s said and done, Ben, YNWA!
The problem people seem to have is to believe that football teams progress each season, they don’t. Nothing happens in a vacuum, eg: we wait for Keita and Van Dijk but at the same time Man City/ United buy 3-4 great players as well. This means you can actually go backwards. Also, while we wait our best players already in place start to be picked off by other big sides. It’s not a linear, zero-sum game. If it was we’d be looking forward to a side with Coutinho, Salah, Van Dijk and Keita, we’re not. We may have a season with Keita, Van Dijk and Salah before one of those leaves. It’s why it drives me mad that we seem to accept as a club that we’ll let January pass with no more additions. You cannot afford to wait around if you want the league title because the reality is that you don’t get time to build a side that way in the premier league these days.
Couldn’t agree more mate. There’s a reason big players want to leave, if the club showed the ambition that they always say they have, then maybe some of those players would stay! United have held onto DeGea…why? because they match the players ambition! Torres, Rafa, Masch etc have publicly come out and said the club lied to them…false premises! even Rogers has said the same with the old Sanchez, Suarez farce – here has to be some weight to it!
Why not go out and buy Mahrez/Lemar/Auba or even Johnny Evans (He’s good enough for City – they want him), or maybe even Mowson, Butland etc they are better than what we have! There are players out there whi fit the profile and ARE better than what we currently have! surely then you add klopp into the mix and you’re onto a winner? at least you’d be improving the team with proven premier league performances!
“We’re never going to be a city or united in terms of spending, so inconsistency is par for the course with a weaker squad. I think as fans we should try to make peace with this”…..Over my dead body and my father’s if you think I will ever “make peace” with playing second fiddle to Manchester over anything let alone Football.
Massive respect for getting a Pink out lads, and it’s a must listen!
Too many things could be said I feel after that game (about VAR, about individuals, about the FA cup [which I couldn’t give a fig for, personally], but isn’t the biggest problem we have our central mid? I think so – watching on tv, it seems like Pardew knew he could get to us through the middle, so that’s what he did. I felt the chemistry/cohesion in the middle had gone, with Ox looking like he didn’t know whether he was there to attack more, or to make things extremely difficult for them in the middle. How many forward passes were exchanged between Can/Gini, cos don’t they disappear too often? I strongly felt Can was to blame for their second goal, over committing and losing his man – it was then just about the delivery into the box, which they (too) easily achieved.
How many times have teams outside the top 4 won a trophy in the last 20 years? I know it’s not very often – achieving top 4 year on year brings you the players required for success. We’re nowhere near that stage yet, and this may be controversial, but if folk really believe getting rid of Klopp will mean we’re better placed to do so, then in my opinion they have no idea how football at the top level works. Our squad isn’t great (yet), we have to deal with that – and how many windows have we had to actually change that; how many players do you want Klopp/FSG to sign? This is his 5th window, having signed 14 players, not including Keita. Transfers by no means always work, so how many should he be bringing in to ‘compete for more trophies’?
If VAR is going to be properly tested and brought in, then training players about how it actually works should be mandatory, not optional. We had players asking for it to be used yesterday, which goes against its current usage. Then we have Pardew coming out with the nonsense that he did!
Here’s to a firmly positive Pink after an away win at the Kirklees – Up the Reds!
I’m really moved to yell like a soldier at the anarchy of Klopp’s riot chaos football of Dortmund, Norwich, Man City. Would you want to want to riot every week to win? Is he crazy to want that, I can’t deny him.
Our defence starts from the front,as it has in many seasons. As the opposition gets further through our lines by luck and skill it gets even more anarchic – our counter starts, or they bagatelle through to our goal.
Opposition defences are better at defending our amazing strikers than our unit is against Mawson,Rodriguez and Sigurdsson.
When we the press is breached up front and our midfield isn’t there immediately we are turned running to our goal.
you can chant like a soldier every game regardless of what’s in front of you! Defending from the front is not an excuse when you concede so many goals from set pieces.
The simple reason we concede so many cheap goals is that we have no ‘defending from the front’ we press the ball well, but that’s all we do, teams have shown how to beat the press! it’s simple! You cannot play the football you want to play with the personnel we currently have! from the halfway line up (our front 3) are extremely good, but behind that we are really really poor – and we show it! nearly every game we show our vulnerability!
You cannot build a mansion on a bed of quick sand! That’s what separates Klopp from being probably the best coach in world football – his inability to defend!
At the end of the day, we are not talking about the preference of chaos football or not…we are talking about the differences between winning and losing! and we are losing far too much in key areas against dire opposition! What hurts the more is that all of this is avoidable!
Two things struck me about this show. First, there’s once again too much emphasis on who wasn’t playing — apparently, in matches that we don’t play well, whoever was injured/on the bench would have made all the difference. If we haven’t done well, it’s just too easy to say Lallana/Coutinho/someone-else would have stopped the rot. I’m not saying we shouldn’t disagree with the manager’s selections but some of the criticisms are just too easy to make (after the fact). I for one think that Sturridge would have made bugger all difference if his last few outings are anything to go by. Not good enough in the link-up game, not enough pressing and uninterested.
Second, during the show, the lads spent a lot of time on the central defenders, theorizing about who would have been best suited to this game. While I agree that VDV and Matip appear casual at times, the first two goals were *all about the midfield*. Even if we’d had Franco Baresi playing for us, we’d have conceded the first two. If you give the ball away in front of your 18 yard box and don’t track the runners so you’re outnumbered in defense, they you risk giving up really good scoring chances — this is what we keep doing week after week. Kopp’s been here for two and bit years and these problems haven’t been fixed, so it’s tempting to think they’re a feature of his system rather than a bug.
One thing I’d completely agree with everyone, though is the ‘keeper situation. This mess we’re seeing is unacceptable and Klopp needs to accept his share of the blame. I’m also one off those who suspects Achterberg may well be part of the problem (or at least, he doesn’t seem to be part of the solution).
We probably need another top class centre half, don’t we? As well as a goalkeeper, two holding midfielders, and another wide forward. Then we need to start actually adapting our game to deal with different types of opposition, and to different sets of circumstances within games. We have become one-dimensional and predictable, like Wenger’s Arsenal.
Klopp on having a “Plan B”:
https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/jurgen-klopp-liverpool-plan-b-12895876
We don’t have to start hoofing it to a big man or anything but how about getting some crosses into the box, even if it’s just low ones? Remember how Utd used to do this so effectively under Ferguson? Without a Pogba (or Coutinho) it’s extremely difficult to pick a way through a well-drilled two banks of four. We don’t even shoot from range either. Teams know exactly what to expect from us, and that is why it is so easy for them to pick up points.
I think we have to accept that changing the heart of your defence mid-season is hardly ideal, especially when that centreback has been targeted for his organisational skills. It will take a while for Van Dijk to get to know the players around him and vice-versa, especially the orders that he has been barking. For our sake, hopefully not too long but they will need a few games to get on the same page and we almost certainly won’t see the best of this defence this season.
To borrow from Rodgers, it is hard to build the plane while flying it, so we should expect some turbulence.
Also, trying to do that without your first team coach (Lijnders) is even harder
Can is an otdinary player, with an attitude. His attitude is worse than Sakho’s and he should be treated the same way.
Back 2 Back defeats against bottom 2 …I can live with…This talk of blaming/sacking KLOPP & critizing VVD…??? Thats just unacceptable to me…every idiot so far that I hear esposing that sameful shit talk…non have had a wonderful scouse accent…thank the gods, non of the people actually residing in Liverpool, Lack sense of how to support LFC…They understand football, they live it…
If $ isn’t spent this window…I agree we criticize FSG…they are busy buying some Tito Martinez 4 John W Henry’s beloved baseball sox….
And even if Klopp wants to wait for the golden choice…FSG’s bodies on the ground are obligated to step in…do some football directing and at least buy Quincy Promes from Spartak from under SHFC noses…
He is great squad talent…could instantly displace Mane on current form…and I don’t want to pay Southampton £60-75mil in 2 seasons…when we can have him today for £30mil…?
Look at this shit vile venom seething in our “support” already…
For Klopp/LFC’s own good…FSG must pull the trigger…Klopp knows/wants this guy, for good reason…Just Zorg Promes into the squad…and lets win the CL, just to shut theirs and unfortunately, some of ours, up. Be hard to talk Klopp out, if we hold up that trophy…No one was convinced with Rafa until 95…
That opening sentence “Back 2 back defeats against bottom 2…I can live with”. That’s got to be a wind up, no one in their right mind would accept that.
Even with Quincy Promes we’re not winning the Champions League with either of the two starting keepers and the mediocre midfield.
The media are quoting £44m for the Roma keeper after an initial bid has been dismissed (low balling no doubt). I guess we’ll see how true Werner’s words were about being “able to compete with anyone in the transfer market”. I won’t be expecting too much.
I just want to get past Porto…and hopefully draw Barca in the next round…they are shit…convinced we would beat them…
This season, best teams remaining in CL are all EPL…La Liga is a joke league …and their “giants” are just aging has beens…
Promes is cup tied and so is Alisson…
Doubt Roma will sell him to us mid-season anyway …
We have to play with what we have and get reinforcements to help attain top 4…
That has to be priority….even if we win nothing…so long as we end top 4…we are improving and can strengthen over summer…
If we win nothing and end up out of CL…
We are in trouble…slating Players and Klopp is a mistake…
Lets back them…and slate FSG if they don’t spend…
Liverpool are not the new Arsenal. Arsenal lose Sanchez, go out and get Mkhitaryan and Aubameyang. Why are Liverpool so inept in the transfer market? They’re not. Liverpool supporters need to get real. The Coutinho money was spent on Chamberlain and Van Dijk. Liverpool NEED to make top four. They don’t need to win the FA Cup.
Everyone says Wenger is a busted flush. They’ve won three FA Cups in five years. In the entire Liverpool careers (stretching back 13 years) of Pepe Reina, Fernando Torres, Javier Mascherano, Phillipe Coutinho and Luis Suarez, Liverpool won a Community Shield, a League Cup and an FA Cup. Liverpool cannot blame Torres, Mascherano, Suarez or Coutinho for moving on when they did. Or for Gerrard being tempted when he was.
The only hope Klopp has of changing the the same old story (wins after 134 games in charge of Liverpool: Klopp: 69, Rodgers: 70) is if they hit that Champions League spot every year. It won’t stop them losing their best players, but it will raise the quality of the players that stick around.
Beating Man City was an anomaly, not the sign that Liverpool can compete over a 38-game season. The run-in for top four is now going to be tough, with Arsenal and United both strengthening with proven, quality attacking players. All in their prime. But dreams of the Champions League need to be tempered by the more important, much more important, effort to make the top four.
Sorry if this seems negative, but I’m just trying to get across that we need to be realistic here. Once we’ve had 4/5 years of top four finishes and Klopp has had a fair few summer transfer windows, then we can start to assess things properly:
Whether the likes of TAA, Woodburn and Gomez have made the grade?
Was the Ox worth it?
Did Salah go to Real?
We won’t turn things around overnight. We have won fuck all since Instanbul really. We’ve seen some of the best players in the world come and go since then – it hasn’t brought us stability, but we’re still here; we’ve got a boss new stand and we’ve been to a few finals. That malaise of the last 15 years won’t change overnight, it wont change in three or four seasons. We need to be patient, be realistic and see if Klopp can do things differently this time. There are going to be blips, but we need to play the long game here.
“There are a lot of games to play, a lot of big challenges waiting for us and we have to be ready. After each defeat, if you learn from it, then it makes a little bit of sense. If you don’t learn from it, then it makes absolutely no sense”….then it makes no sense we are still playing Moreno and Mignolet.
And Can as well, shouldn’t be anywhere near the captaincy when he’s clearly going. Rather play one of the kids.
Long time leech of the free, recent subscriber.
There’s a lot of words spent on the center halves, keeper, Moreno etc. But oh this midfield. Can and Gini time and again demonstrate they’re lost when playing with lines and players ahead of them. Poor touch in tight spaces, few quick passes, no switching, nothing vertical, few in the channels. And when they do, they collectively leave no cover for when it doesn’t come off. Can’t expect 3 players strong in all those aspects but can’t have 3 that are so poor in most of them.
I used to think Gini and Can, especially Can, look like they can’t be arsed against these ‘lesser’ sides but I think it’s a fundamental flaw in their skill set and styles as players. Ox gets a minor pass here, new and starts further up pitch, but this 3 looks adrift against these sides that leave men back and close gaps.
Back 4 and keeper are criticized but this midfield just can’t play ‘lesser’ sides consistently.