QUESTIONS: What does a Liverpool goal look like?
Any ideas? I’m stumped. I know what a *Daniel Sturridge* goal looks like. I even feel like I can hazard a decent enough guess at a Christian Benteke goal. He arguably mishit one from 15 yards at 1-0. But none of these are simply Liverpool goals. Indeed, let me rephrase…
What was a Liverpool goal meant to look like today?
I’ve no idea. I’ve never had less idea. This wasn’t Watford where Liverpool were 2-0 down by 20. This was a game where Liverpool were able to get approximately on top. But there was still no idea what the finish would be. What the chance that was carved out would be. It cannot be that someone just does something boss. Yet it was difficult to see what else it could be.
Liverpool have a lot of lads who might make something happen. A lot of lads who might box something. But few who almost certainly will. And the thing about those who almost certainly will is they make those who might far more likely. The game is about space and brilliance. One begets the other. Today Liverpool had neither.
What changes it?
The market is what everyone will think. And if Liverpool get lucky it might. But as Paul Senior pointed out on The Pink, Manchester City spend £25m on Navas and then £50m on Sterling because the former never made it happen. The latter also hasn’t seen two Manchester City away league goals at the time of writing since September 2015.
The point is that it is hard. But maybe the moral is to have goalscorers on the pitch, lads who have a return to their name; rather than a team full of would-be number 10s, have goalscorers. Ensure they are always present in the starting 11 and from the bench. Don’t scrimp.
How else can there be improvement?
Don’t concede early, though some balls in can just be too delicious.
Everyone concedes early sometimes. But consistently conceding early all the time away from home has to stop soon. To constantly be at that sort of disadvantage kills a side eventually.
Conceding when you don’t know where your equaliser comes from is a body blow difficult to come back from.
Emre Can in a sense. But it displays the slight futility of centre midding that. He played well. But unless he is helping or making consistent final third things happen, or on the other hand stopping them from happening, then he is difficult to full throatedly praise.
A game of football against Stoke in a competition Liverpool have won four times since they last won the title. League cups are far easier than leagues.
Up the Reds
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It has to be said, there is little if any room for Benteke in the system we’re trying to play, and as someone pointed out, he only won 15% of his aerial duels today. Lallana and Firmino look like they are up for something, it just doesn’t look like assisting or scoring. Our midfield is easier to get through than a hot knife through butter. No one seemed to give two shits after the second goal today, and barely seemed to before. I get it, we were on short rest, but not having any drive or pride is unacceptable. Not sure what Lucas brings to the table anymore. Clyne can’t be expected to effectively defend against two players who are a combing 3 meters taller than him on every cross. Our set pieces… feels like we haven’t scored on one in something like 250 matches.
How long until Sinclair gets a run out? Or has his contract dispute burned bridges? Although he might not be a Liverpool level striker, there’s no way he’d bring less energy or desire than the 11 on the pitch today.
Really surprised he wasn’t on the bench today (although 2 rookie full backs were!) Unless he’s got a knock I reckon he won’t be around much longer.
I dont know if you were at the u21 derby a few weeks ago but Sinclair was very poor and looked moody and uninterested. Nothing against the lad but really dont think he’s the solution at this time.
I think the kid’s head is already with Man City, with the same agent as Stirling ‘guiding’ him.
maybe Ryan Kent would be on the bench at Stoke?
Hard to be positive today. According to Steve Mcmanaman Klopp should be ” very concerned” and Harry Rednapp said we were “very very poor”. They should get on the Radio Merseyside phone-in with that level of negativity.
Truth is we weren’t as bad as Watford or Newcastle and we kept going to the end. Lovren did OK, Ibe was bright first half and Smith looked eager when he came on. Not much else really. These 3 losses will have told Klopp all he needs to know about certain players.
don’t forget redknapp has less idea about football than a fictitious irish leprichaun.
He kept going on about crosses into the box yet we put 23 crosses into the box and another 9 or so from set pieces.
truth is benteke is never going to attack the space, even if his brain wills him to do it, the signal takes a week to get to his legs.
Manager himself said we were outworked, as would anyone else who witnessed this latest shower. Nothing else matters after that.
Not sure about the the game being about ”Space an Brilliance”
I reckon it’s more about “PACE” and Brilliance.
We don’t run at teams, we don’t put them under pressure, make them make mistakes (12 pens in one season a couple of years ago wasn’t it?).
Everyone wants to be a fancy dan, a number 10, with a fancy pass and a shot (rarely a goal) from 25 yards
And as for Benteke – what more does a No 9 need to give him confidence, than winning the last 2 games for his club???
Bag of SH*TE for me today him I’m afraid.
Going to take Klopp 18 months to clear up Rodger’s mess
Absolutely spot-on Dave. No pace whatsoever in this team when Benteke is leading the line. Sick of hearing the so called experts (Harry and Glen that’s why you’re still out of work lads) say we need to throw more crosses in for Benteke. That’s the last thing you need against West Ham – it’s pace and trickery that will trouble West Ham’s back line. Saw plenty of crosses going in today but Collins had Benteke in his pocket. No movement whatsoever from the big lump. Seen Coutinho criticised in many reports for shooting so much but when your centre forward doesn’t make any diagonal runs what’s he supposed to do? (show Benteke a few Ian Rush videos Jurgen). Put Ings or Sturridge in this team and Coutinho will come alive – no wonder he looks so pissed-off. Luckily I think Klopp realises this – no coincidence he said his player of the year was Vardy. Can’t see Benteke being at the club this time next year.
The Redknapp point – which was spot on – was that *if* you’re going to play Benteke, play to his strengths…or leave him on the bench. Picking him and then complaining he doesn’t show like Ian Rush makes no sense whatsoever.
Benteke is a 1 in 2 goal scorer over a prolonged period, and was going a goal every 175mins for us in the league before today. Provide him with the right kind of service and he’ll score goals. His history demonstrates that. 15% win rate on aerial duels tells you nothing about the quality of the ball coming in and ignores the fact we’re not playing with a top two, meaning Benteke has 2 centre halves to deal with for every shite ball lopped up to him. I do remember him winning a couple of knock downs in the second half…except there was no one there for the knock down on either occasion.
I know I’m sounding like Benteke’s mum with the defence I’m offering, but my point isn’t really about whether Benteke is the answer or not. He may well not be, but you won’t ever find out for sure if you pick him only for the team to play like he’s Danny Ings.
What you said
Totally agree!! some of the ball up to him was a disgrace.. 2 or sometimes 3 on him.. it’s up to the fancy dan #10’s to sort him out with good ball… why should be expect him to come short.. then people would be complaining that he’s not in the box..
How else can we play him? Which players do we have to play to Benteke’s strength if that’s what we want to do? A third of Benteke’s goals in the Prem have been headers. How are you suggesting we use him? Pump long balls into the box?
Then don’t pick him. If we genuinely believe we don’t have someone in the team who can cross a ball as well as Ross fucking Noble, then leave him on the bench. But don’t pick him and then setup to play like he’s John Aldridge.
Or – here’s an even wilder thought – play someone up with him so he can develop a partnership. Or if we insist on using him as a target man, buy some midfielders who are actually prepared to make a run into the box from deep for all those knock downs that currently land at the feet of an unopposed opposition defender.
If Klopp is the manager we all think he is, it shouldn’t be beyond his wit to come up with a game plan designed to get the best out of our number 9. If this runs totally counter to his footballing philosophy, then as I say, leave Benteke on the bench. But this halfway house stuff is bullshit.
Ross Noble? He’d probably get in our team lol.
That’s the point mate. Don’t play him. Obviously we have little choice at the minute but the window is open. We can’t adapt the team to suit him so let’s put an end to it and put it down to another Rodgers fiasco, then move on.
I understand the Redknapp point but do you exactly watch Benteke. There were plenty of the balls in the air for him. For someone who is supposedly good in the air he’s got no spring, he never gets off the ground, Keegan, at a foot or more smaller, was a better header of the ball than him. It doesn’t matter that he’s got two big centre-halves marking him he’s built like a brick shithouse he should be out muscling them, after all that’s supposed to be his major strength. He nearly always gets underneath the ball instead of attacking the ball like Carroll did for their second goal. He just stands there on the edge of the six-yard box waiting for the perfect cross and don’t get me started on his lack of understanding of the offside rule. As Melissa put in one of her tweets from the Sunderland game he has the ability to make everyone else in the team look shit.
Benteke’s goal scoring record in the EPL is vastly superior to Carroll. Andy has 55 in 189. Benteke has 48 in 105. He’s been doing something right for a guy who can’t head a ball.
I like Melissa normally but that’s just more of the scapegoating bullshit I despise whenever the team falters. She must have been watching a different midfield for the last 2 years if she thinks it takes a Benteke to make the rest of them look shit.
Re-posting so forgive the irrelevant bits but this is the problem:
Hats off to Brendan Rodgers for buying another lumbering centre forward after Carroll, Balo and Lambert worked so well with our midfielders. Well done Brendan, thanks. Not that today was Benteke’s fault, but our midfielders simply don’t know what to do with forwards who don’t move as was proven time and time again under Rodgers. What was he thinking? Oh….
We either back our midfielders or our strikers. The point you’ve made elsewhere about our midfielder’s failings is a salient one, particularly when we play a version of 4-2-3-1 as the 3 are in there to make and provide goals.
It’s just not fair or accurate to bracket Benteke with those other guys. He has proven EPL goal-scoring credentials with a games/goal ratio far better than any of your comparatives. But I take the border point that essentially Klopp needs to decide – and decide quickly – whether he persists with Benteke and asks the team to adapt, or consigns the Belgian to the bench. As I said, the halfway house approach benefits nobody.
I would say, given the repeated underachievement of our midfield (at least in the goalscoring stakes which is where our biggest problem lies right now), there is at least an argument to be made that it is they who need to be made to conform to a style that gets the best out of our number 9 who, whatever his faults, has proven he can actually score goals. At least until Sturridge is fit. It doesn’t have to be a permanent philosophical shift in how LFC play footy.
I don’t buy that this midfield is incapable of adapting as needed. If the Aston Villa midfield could provide the right levels of service, I’m sure our guys can.
It is the way he’s playing Brownie! He was a much better player at Villa than the others but he’s been poor for us.
Villa were far more direct than us, the team was built around Benteke. Hendo aside, we don’t have the midfielders to run beyond Benteke so we’ll never get the best out of him with the current team. The midfield was built to serve Sturridge and Suarez, therein lies the problem, but the lack of goals is unacceptable. I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a poorer Liverpool side when it comes to set plays or shooting. It comes to something when Albie Moreno and Dejan Lovren are taking free kicks and corners.
The elephant in the room is, of course, not Benteke, but Daniel Sturridge: if we think (and I know, its a big ask) that we can get Sturridge fit and firing then we need to structure our team around him with Benteke as either a strike partner or an impact sub. Sturridge, like it or not, is our one world class player.
Outfought and outthought by West Ham. Dearie me.
Still, onwards and upwards, we have the right man at the helm.
Glenn Hoddle couldn’t fathom why Klopp didn’t change the shape to two upfront. Ask your spiritual healer how many forwards he had available to come on off the bench Glenn, you silly old fool. This is the same fella who wanted Gerrard and Lampard to start in midfield together at a World Cup in 2014.
BT do my fucking head in big time. How many numskulls do they need? Seriously, not one single one of them adds anything whatsoever. I watched it in my dads otherwise I’d have turned the sound off as I do at home.
Whatever happened to that “crowd only” option?
MoTD is worse. I don’t watch it anymore, particularly if we are shite. Lineker spends more time on his jokes than on the footy. Analysis and replays always seems to be about stuff that has no bearing on the game.
They’ve fallen for their own BS that tv is about entertainment. MoTD has never been about entertainment, it’s about bloody football. Watch the other 23 hours if you want entertainment.
The only positive thing about the entire club currently is the manager. You could tell in his press conference that the players just did not carry out his instructions. For the Carroll goal he said something like: ‘that isn’t pressing…..that is something else.’ Clearly some of them are not intelligent or committed enough to do what he needs, and are therefore not fit to play for Klopp or this club.
There is a core of mediocrity out on the pitch. Too many players have experienced defeat too many times.
spot on…we have the right manager, at least, to fix this shore.
JK deserves some credit for being angry with “himself” (possibly meaning he’s angry with the team.and their performance) …and he didn’t hear around the bush praising the shite performance of the Soft team.
Moreno – didnt block the cross for the second goal because he was afraid of the ball hitting him, should be benched next game for that… pathetic!
Its hard to say how many times ive seen this performance in the last 25 years but its quite a lot. Its becoming normal now and it makes me so sad that I’m not as bothered by defeats like this anymore.
I’m not going to start slagging Klopp cause I beleive we did a magnificent thing in getting a manager of such quality.
That being said, Bren’s downfall was the loss/lack of identity his team developed, and sadly for him, that seemed to reflect his own persona – he didn’t seem sure who he was.
I’m pretty sure that Klopp knows who he is, and the identity he wants to create in the team – it may, hopefully be that the current players aren’t right for that identity (so we sell a few and buy a few). However, Klopp is a human being and I hope that he remains strong to his identity, I thought we would have seen more glimpses of it by now.
Fundamentally I (we) am deluded into thinking that our players are superior to ‘medium’ opposition, in the main the arent.
Coutinho, Sturridge, Henderson look like they COULD walk into most premier league teams, could any of the others? NO
excellent point. and I would add Clyne to the three names. The rest? ~ Do special summer garage sale “Buy one get one free”…
I’ve said it ad nauseum; Rodgers (and it WAS Rodgers – he boasted he had the final say) targeted players with ball skills rather than FOOTBALL skills. You can’t do that. Jack Charlton once asked Alf Ramsey why he selected him when there was a handful of better centre halves in the country: Ramsey said he agreed, but he didn’t pick the best players, he picked the best team. Rodgers couldn’t put a team together, in my view. He used the wrong criteria.
he wants intensity. Always. today it wasn’t there, partly because when a team sits back and lets you have the ball, it’s hard to show that intensity.
There’s little pressing because you have the ball a lot which is why the AI lot going on about pressing statistics is so laughably irrelevant.
And then when the crosses did come in we didn’t press the delivery. Can and Lucas just watched the cross come over and of course because of the WBA fiasco, Mignolet just stayed glued to his line waiting for the defence to fail, and escapes any responsibility when he should have come out and cleared the cross.
When the WHU box is packed with defenders marshalled by the midfielders it’s a tough nut to crack and of course they are ready to break. That being said we just were poor at link up play in a congested area.
It makes me think we should have stayed back and played their game and hit them on the break with Moreno , Clyne and Ibe with Tekkers playing a hold up game and following them up after laying it off.
you saw the fact that our keeper should have come.out for the cross (at least the first goal)… Others could have blocked the cross to come in, but once that line of defence is gone, Ming should have come out and help Clyne since the cross was a slow hanging one coming into the six yard box…
Another heartwrenchingly discouraging day.
Everyone seems to think that Can is a class act, I think he plays the game as if he’s playing with a bunch of kids on the beach. He plays at his own pace, tries silly step overs etc with little end product.
Watch that first goal again. He KNOWS Moreno is out of position. The number 1 thing he has to do is stop Kouyate from bursting down the wing, he saunters over and half jockeys him and actually diverts him down the wing. Defence gets pulled over as a result. Then the initial tackler has somehow run the length of the pitch to reach the back post. Who let him go all that way?
Klopp will know a bit more about who has to go in the summer.
Moreno – useless defender and no end product up front
Sakho – not a natural defender, has too many brainless moments
Migs – did well today overall but he’ll be gone in the summer
Can – thinks he’s world class, probably pampered his whole foit ball life. Pretends too much
Benteke – just doesn’t suit our style. Too slow. A £32.5 million striker should pounce on that slip from CB in first half.
Klopp can only work so many miracles. He needs his own players in. He needs players that will be loyal to him and who OWE him.
Can has a long way to go but he does have presence which is important in midfield. He’s also captained every German Youth side up to the seniors so there’s something in there.
Can will be much much better if he keeps his game simple. No doubt he was trying too hard probably to make an.impact to the match and trying to lead by example in his own way.
but on various occassion, during past few matches, he could have passed the ball to many other teammates instead of trying to dribble or do slow motion step overs in the crowded areas, and lose the ball.
still, age and power are on his side. he will be a good one for the future and will improve for sure..
Too many Skeletors in our team – weak physically and mentally, too much bling for me.
Moreno – didnt block the cross for the second goal because he was afraid of it hitting him
‘LOL’-lana – just a joke at this stage, what does he actually do ? Tries hard, runs nicely alongside opponents, ruins 5 yard passes….
Firmino – Looks like he’s ready to star in some music video or to be a stunt double (from a distance) for Neymar….. – has no touch at all..
IBE – ran at a defender once today, not good enough..
Big Ben – difficult for him with 2 or 3 defenders on him for the whole game.. would just like him to go ‘full 2014/2015 Diego Costa’ and start kicking people… he’s sooo tame..
Give me a couple of Kuyt-esque players instead of any of the above and we’d be doing a lot better… at least we’d get stuck in…
Benteke’s natural movement is to take a couple of steps back not up the pitch. He will never attack the ball, always waits for it to arrive.
That’s easy for a CB to nullify and just sit on him.
So we have to do different things, we have to have runners go past him and him come deeper and lay it off. Or we have to take it to the dead ball line and cut it back ala the Leicester goal where again, he took a couple of steps back to make space.
It’s a big change from how we want to play but it’s the only way to use Tekkers. even better ball crossers wouldn’t help with a WHU defence.
a few months back, Aldo made an excellent point about one trick he was taught early in his career ~
to try to move to the back post (or outside) area when the wife player was about to cross. And once the cross comes in, time the run forward inside and attack the ball.
simple enough theory (and idea), and it worked for players like Aldo and Sherer.
Benteke is supposed to be a different player…but since he is our big strong target man, why can’t he follow similar move?…won’t be too difficult to learn such positioning move?…instead of doing.nothing like in West ham match and have hammers central defenders the best and easiest time…
He’s 24, a centre forward and he’s never bothered doing that or learned to do it. He’s lazy basically. He’s not going to learn it now because his brain tells him he can score 1 in 2 by not changing never mind that he is very inconsistent and he has long barren patches.
Migs has a similar problem. He has very good reactions so he’s never learned to move his feet. Because of that he makes a mess of coming off his line, there’s always a mistake in there. He’s lazy basically. He stays glued to his line and then doesn’t have to take responsibility when the defence fails. He’s a fraud of a keeper, a coward.
Basically the people buying our players over the last few years don’t have a clue. They seemed to think you can just coach players to do anything you want just by saying it.
Fucks sake! I was this far from going back to work on Monday with a real spring in my step. Been a great holiday, playing golf in storms every day, out drinking every other night, fry ups in the local cafe the following afternoon. A good first test to wake up to in the cricket. Darts has been good and then obviously shitloads of football and win and after win for Liverpool. At least, that was what I was talking about on the course this morning. I feel totally dejected now and like it’s all been a waste of time and money. I go back miserable with too many questions in my head. Nice one Liverpool.
I’m just gonna repeat what I say after every defeat now. We’ve all heard the story about Rodgers writing an epic to FSG explaining why Benteke is worth £32m. What the fuck did it say? How did he describe how the goals would come bearing in mind he knew we had no wingers. Ibe can’t be criticised. He’s developing and he showed more willing than most today but he doesn’t actually get the ball into the box. If Rodgers thought the full backs would do it then I wonder if he’s bought the right ones. I’m ok with them though. A lot will say it’s not Benteke’s fault and they’d probably be right but I’m not feeling he wants it in a way say, Ings would want it. I’m not fully satisfied by his goal celebrations either. I like Lovrens face when we concede. He looks gutted. Perhaps a bit harsh that. We’re all different. I wanna see more though all round.
It’s all a complete mismatch of a team. No thought has gone into it and no consideration of how it all knits together. On top of that there’s no goals in the team and no leaders. No pace or strength either. In some ways, I feel Rodgers wanted to replicate Barca’s model but with average players and in the physicality of the Prem too. I believe that Buvac is fairly quiet but in a wise man sense rather than a mouse. I heard a rumour he told the players in the dressing room after Watford that a lot of players were playing for their contracts. I like the fact Klopp couldn’t contain his anger in the press conference. Obviously, he was diplomatic but it wasn’t hard to read between the lines. I trust these people. They have the qualities I like as people and as people who run the Liverpool team. I don’t like to say this but I think the transfer committee should be fired. What is their saving grace? In most high profile jobs if the public lose absolute confidence then they have to stand down. I feel it’s a new start with people who are more like what we all want. Let’s bin the past and that halfway house between doing what’s right for Liverpool and pleasing the owners. Give Klopp and his team full control and let them bring their people in.
There’s a woman over the road from me who vehemently denies what everyone else thinks, that her sons a vile brat. Surely, the one lone voice can’t be right. I feel like that woman when I look at Joe Allen on the bench. He might as well leave now. The squad’s depleted and he still can’t get on with the team so abject. Ok, he got about 10 mins and his miss was vulgar but it was about the only chance we created all day. I get that West Ham are physical. I get that Emre Can looked ok in parts today, that Lucas breaks things up and can be tough. What I don’t get though is how I seem to be the only person who feels Lucas with Can stifles our tempo and Allen increases it. For a team that doesn’t have Henderson and can’t score Allen is a better option than Lucas and Can, surely? The reality is, we need better players than both Lucas and Allen with Can being a good prospect for the future but I was disappointed we didn’t see more of him today. I find, when we play well with Allen he’s instrumental but if we play poor with Allen he’s often terrible or anonymous. I think that’s because he’s in tune with the team and our tempo.
Out of interest, 5 Live said tonight that the score at half time in Utd’s last 8 home games has been 0-0, 0-0, 0-0, 0-0, 0-0, 0-1 to Norwich, 0-0, 0-0,
Hi. I heard before the game that Allen was recovering from an illness which might explain why he didn’t start this particular game
Cheers mate. I did wonder if that was the case as I missed the pre-match build up. I don’t believe he would have got in anyway. Not many would give him a chance before Lucas, Can, Firmino or Lallana. I would. I think that list is poor. Can will be good in the future though blah blah blah. Not buying ‘this he’s been our best player recently’ shite. He’s been average at best.
Totally agree with para 3 above. But Robin give it a rest with Allen. Yes, he couldnt do worse but the reason most of us want rid is because he has failed nearly every single time he’s been involved in a game like yesterdays.
It says everything that WH bench was much better than ours. We cant tackle, cross, take a free-kick, score etc pretty fundamental for footy.
Cant begin to think we will get anything from Stoke. Exeter is a major worry with our lack of goals. Any corners or free-kicks to them are a major threat tho strangely I think our defence has improved its just the lack of goals at the other end leaves us exposed and gives the other team belief.
You probably know I disagree. My issue is with the way we as fans look at our current players. Can was maybe one of the better players yesterday but what did he actually contribute? What does Lucas contribute? What does Lallana contribute? We look at individual moments from individual players and form a conclusion. It’s a team game and my feeling is we have a player who doesn’t stand out but makes our team better. He moves the ball forward more regularly and with a lot more speed than the others. That’s the way to beat these shit teams. If assists were also counted as the player who assisted the assister then he’d have a lot. What I wonder is, how many of these Liverpool fans who write and comment actually played the game and understand more than statistics. A classic example being Benteke. Good goal scoring figures but we create less good chances when he plays. If Klopp is looking at all the players then Allen deserves a chance too, especially when Lucas and Can are nothing special. Personally, I’d bin them all and buy a replacement.
I’m with you on most of that mate. I reckon the TCs days are numbered judging by the signing of the Serbian lad, who looks like a Klopp/Buvac signing all day long. Klopp will see them off by sourcing his own players. I doubt the owners will want to take him on over it so they’ll be quietly be consigned to the bin.
Have Fallows and Hunter really been able to source 1st team players for the team? BR seems to have his fingerprints all over those including Benteke, – with the exception of Balotelli. They were all over priced, no value, questionable standard.
Seems BR chose the 1st team players (epl players whom he found hard to play against) and the scouts found talented youngsters from around europe.
Klopp believes in developing players so I wouldn’t expect him to buy in established 1st team players. We have to hope they identify good younger players though because the success rate of youngsters isn’t actually that high.
The lack of fight is the most worrying for me. I like Clyne but he was targeted today. West Ham let Moreno have the ball as rarely produces. Only others that seemed to care were Can, plus Lallana & Smith when they came on. Best thing about today was Jurgen’s post match comments about being angry & getting what we deserved, none of the old “we were controlling the game “, or “showed character ” that Rafa & Brendan used to roll out after a defeat.
Worried about Stoke & Exeter, hopefully Jurgen can shake some life into some of them before Tuesday.
This is a patchwork quilt of a squad.Randomly put together.It looks nice;but won’t keep you warm at night.
I quite like some of them.Lallana is easy on the eye.Can is so,so, industrious.Lucas pops up everywhere.And Benteke pops up in the same place every time.Some of the others don’t seem to know where to pop up.
But this isn’t yet Klopp’s team.So maybe we just keep our powder dry for the time being.
But if this lot was a quilt to keep you warm at night? Well,I’d rather have my Dad’s old army coat.
Completely agree with the patchwork quilt analogy.
It’s almost like the team has been assembled by committee with no one overarching idea of how they’ll all play together, eh???
Crosses? Per Opta, were 35 crosses so Redknapp as idiotic as ever. Can hit the bar, couple went close Ibe, for one but again, 25 shots, 2 on target.
Lallana plays good for 2 minutes then throws away a pass. Coutinho has to sit til he gets his head on right.
Playing decent at the back but no goals will mean a long 18 games to go. 50 points. Might make 8th, probably 10th.
Relax until summer kids, Klopp won’t do much in January.
“We’ve got the most average midfield in the world…Adam Lallana, Roberto Firmino, Lucas and Phil Coutinho.”
Great technicians, full of character.
We were second to every 50-50 in the first half. That’s unacceptable. Nothing to do with quality or creativity. It’s to do with being arsed.
I’m just sick of people using the term onwards and upwards. On here, on RAWK… I must have read it 500 times now.
Christ, even Pete Burns said it when he was up for the chop on Big Brother!
I am bored with unremitting Scouse optimism, in the face of overwhelming evidence.
Backwards and downwards, more like!
Lol, just remembered Galloway pretending to be a cat.
So we need some fresh blood. That much is clear. What’s the situation with Markovic? Is he able to return this month?
Markovic is out on a season long loan I’m sure, with no chance of a recall.
Markovic had as much impact as Firmino now.
Another gutless signing who showed absolutely nothing for 20 mill.
Who the fuck scouted these players!!!
Rather unfair on Markovic. He has a good go defensively when forced by Rogers to play at wing back. The lad has talent but never really showed it apart from a few flashes. For me he lacked confidence which was apparent in his forward play. I would like him back and under a manager who will have a fresh view on how to use him and give him the belief he needs to show his ability.
May have sounded a bit harsh but I honestly saw nothing in the lad that justified that kind of outlay.
Instead of the vaunted speed and dribbling skills we were told lit up Benfica, I saw a lad who treated the ball like a hot potato.
The rare times he attempted to beat his man, his ‘trick’ was to push it past him and try and outrun the fullback.
Steve Heighway this fella wasn’t,
To even suggest bringing him back smacks of sheer desperation.
It’s not desperation more a genuine desire to actually see wht the lad can do under a quality manager with, one hopes, an improved squad. He was a sought after player during his time in Portugal so I’m sure he must have more than we’ve seen.
Ah..:Stevie Heighway. Went to his testimonial and he signed my programme. How we could do with him now: great player.
Playing loads of no.10s with a target man with full backs who can’t cross don’t work, who would’ve thought. Whoever sold or loaned out all our wide players in the summer and leave Ibe as our best wide option needs sacking
I struggle to think of a single top European club who has made loads of no.10s work as a system, most clubs have wide forwards or wide players.
We end up with a bunch of playmakers who all wanna overpossess and can’t run or score
Completely agree. Such an unbalanced squad.
We need to sell one of Firmino, Coutinho and Lallana……they fact they’re all candidates at the min is worrying.
This is Klopps first pop at the players but not the first time that we have been hacked off. This month is key and some ballsey decisions need to be made. Three number tens doesn’t add up particularly when they are not outstanding number tens. Due to injuries the choices are limited but playing A.N.Other alongside Benteke seems to be the most sensible option. Could this be Sturridge, we can only pray. Strong mobile midfield to get up and down the park Henderson Milner Can will do for me will someone please get Coutinhio out of his sulk and slump. Brad Smith is ready, play him, Moreno the back turning ballet dancers number is up. This leaves us with Clyne who is steady if not spectacular and any pairing of centre halves ahead of Mignolet. Get back to basics work harder than the opposition play within a team framework and win games.
The sad fact is that Benteke doesn’t fit Klopp’s style of play, but that is all he has to play with! Until Sturridge, Origi and Ings return to fitness, or Klopp buys in January, there’s fuck all he can do!
As for the midfield – we need an expirenced stopper who is willing to get his hands dirty instead of 4 show ponies who would rather do Nivea adverts!!!
Sorry, I don’t buy the theory that all the players who thrashed City , Chelsea and Southampton have suddenly become shite- I detect yet another overreaction to a bad defeat /good win. Although not good , our performance was not 2 goals worse than the very average Wet Ham’s. We had a couple of decent spells of ultimately fruitless pressure (Lucas, Can and Allen could all have scored on another day) but fell foul of our long -standing inability to properly defend crosses. Oh, and another bad refereeing decision .
There are obviously problems and decisions to be made:-
We need a goalkeeper willing and brave enough to come off his line to gather crosses that arrive in the 6 yard box.
We need fit, quick , mobile forwards.I can’t remember such a bad time for injuries- I reckon we have had 15 players out injured at different times this half- season.
We need to recruit players capable of competing physically with the more “robust” sides in the league. Brendan’s obsession with buying technical players and the current run of injuries has denied us this ability.
Most importantly we need to be patient with a new manager on a steep learning curve in this league. I’m confident he will get it right but it will take time, some new players and some better luck. I’d suggest that the more familiar ( to him) football of the Europa league might be his best route to success this year. A League Cup win wouldn’t hurt either.
Admire the optimism but the rose tinted specs are clouding over a bit there.
We have spent 250 million in the past 3 years – including over 100 mill. on strikers – to arrive at a goal difference of -2! That’s minus fucking 2!
We have 3 number 10’s who have 1 fucking goal between them.
One of them is the Brazilian Stan Laurel whose haircut does his playing for him.
The other is the master of the cutback. So good that he does it ad infinitum and lets the opposition defense ample time to get back and block whatever ‘threat’ he may pose.
The 3rd fella has the skill but is so fed up at being surrounded by dross that he’s resorted to playing by himself.
The stench of the majority of these buys will take at least 3 windows to clear.
Give Klopp the time to clear the mess up but don’t pretend that this side is anything but mediocre.
Hope our team is built around that special 3rd fella plus a fit Sturridge, and supported by Hendo..:)
A good point and agreed with you, especially after having a good sleep and one full day to get rid of the anger from the system..
and as I have pointed out earlier, yes, keeper should have some out and claim the crosses into 6 yard box…especially first goal.
Perspective please …. we had a short turnaround after running Leicester allover the park 2 days previously. Phsically we were not really at it yesterday and i think that is a major factor.
In Klopps very short time here. He has devised ways of beating the best, competing with and beating the next in line i.e Southampton, Leicester and he nullified Spurs.
What he has not been able to do is deal with the pace, physicality and menace of the typical EPL percentage merchants … no need to name names there.
He has inherited a squad which is a mismatch of players and styles which is ravaged by injuries to key players. Unfortunately for us the so-called dross nearly all have quality to go with physicality and they know our weaknesses particularly minus Henderson.
I have been really impressed with how we can set up for individual games all the better if the opposition want to play ball.
It’s crystal clear where we need to develop a strategy I have no doubt Klopp will do it but I don’t see what or with whom he could have changed things yesterday. Perhaps he will say if you can’t beat them then join them and try and out tough the toughies but it would bore him and all of us to death … we’ll see.
One more thing, when Sturridge returns then the 3 tenors will make sense but until then we labour on I suspect when faced with EPL dross.
Mate, don’t kid yourself about facing EPL dross.
We are fully paid up members of the dross club.
Rodgers legacy will take ages to eradicate.
If Klopp didn’t realize the magnitude of the task, he does now.
He will do it but few of these will be along for the ride.
Nope, we are not dross, but we’re a bit of a mess. I am not sure we know what we are.
Even with whom he has inherited he has managed to do City, Chelsea, Southampton all away blah blah so there are things he can do right now.
This season is really a free hit for him and a prolonged job interview for the squad.
I have been quite impressed at times at how we have played but we have really not managed against the you know whos. I reckon he’ll sort it out in his own head and lets see then at the end of the season who’s around for the next one.
For what it’s worth I wouldn’t be at all surprised if we do evolve some strategy for these types of games. We have to.
I still think the West Ham game was more in the legs and the minds not being up to it than the hearts not being into it together with the incoherent attacking set up referred to by many posters. It’s fine margins always. If you are not on your game against anyone they can do you.
The saving grace in all this is actually Southampton in the cup rather than City or Chelsea away. Sturridge was reaching full fitness. I put our malaise down to two things. The obligatory lacking a quality striker in the mould we want and missing Henderson. Once you add those the whole picture changes. We stop having 3 or 4 number 10’s for a start. The forwards stretch the defenders and the midfield don’t hit a brick wall but can hit the channels. The stagnant Lucas and Can becomes Henderson and Can or Henderson and Lucas.
There’s no question the squad has been left in a bit of a mess but 3 players and a bit of luck on the injury front could transform that team into a quality side. We could actually put out a good side now but it relies on having most of the injured players fit which seems optimistic or in the case of Ings impossible.
I like the idea of the current back 5 but with Flanagan for Moreno, Lucas, Henderson, Milner, Coutinho in a diamond and Sturridge and Ings up front.
Yep, i think you have a point vis a viz missing players and the coherence they would give the team. At the moment, as in vs West Ham we played as a team which ended up seemingly less than the sum of it’s parts. Sturridge and Hendo would/could flip that, they make sense but …. when will they play together … If it’s doing our collective head in then imagine what it’s doing to Klopp.
After that it’s horses for courses …. for now.
If you look at the would be spine of this team …. Migs, Sakho and ?, Hendo, Sturridge ? …. It’s kind of a perma crock festival really …. and Migs ….. I am thinking Klopp has done well to get us to where we are really.
Good stuff Robin. As you say add a sturridge and hendo and you don’t have quite so many number 10s (though i’m not sure Benteke survives that selection) which have been forced on us by injuries.
For me that game weekend should be the FA cup and then the league the following weekend as most squads are feeling it by new year. As it is teams will rotate for the FA cup so nothing will change there but as it is the league games get distorted. At least a few of those around us lost too ! !
But when a team drops back and parks the bus our intensity isn’t really what it’s about. We have to pick the lock, and that relies on interplay (we’re bad at one -twos) and getting wide and cutting balls back. There’s little point in putting in crosses for benteke against a WHU unit that’s built for an aerial game.
Spending two summers looking for a target man striker and spending £50m on Balo and Tekkers is just a nonsense though.
I am surprised Robin didn’t mention Joe Allen haha..(especially when Joe Allen started in 6-1 win).
Haha, my point over Joe Allen is only that he’s a very good squad player. Until this month, perhaps, he’s been a player happy to sit it out and wait his turn because he wants to be a success at Liverpool. When he’s called on he’s good 2 in 3 which isn’t easy off the bench once a month. I despise the way the Liverpool fans berate him yet laud Lucas and Can. None of the 3 are good enough for a 1st team place though as I keep saying, Can looks like he’ll be ok, maybe, but from what we’ve got I personally think Allen is a better option despite what I’ve said about being a squad player. If the ball goes forward quick to one of your own men then you’re in business. If it goes side to side at a snails pace then you’re not gonna score against 2 banks of 4 plus the spare man runner. It’s got to go forward quick and bypass the first bank of 4. Then you’ve got a chance. Allen does that.
good thing is majority of fans here (apart from one or two weirdos) believe in Klopp, that he would be able to fix this given time.and resources.
that in itself is a very very good uniting fact (another bonding fact) for the fans of Liverpool FC.. (of Klopp can’t fix this mess, probably we would have to wait for the real JC who can really walk on water)
We got the ball out wide left with crosses coming in, but Benteke decided to hang back for a cut back that was never coming and we didn’t get the numbers in the box to attack the crosses put in. Surely they should have taken the initiative on the pitch to have flooded the box to at least increase the chance of getting a head on a ball or picking up a knock down etc.?
Apart from that going through the middle just wasn’t an option as we have no movement at all up front. We don’t look like being able to pull defenders away from their positions to create space for others which we haven’t been able to do since 13-14. I accept that West Ham were very disciplined and stuck to the plan.
Clyne needs to do more for me coming forward to create width across the whole pitch and the front 4 need to move far more to create space for third man runs and holes in the box.
quality of our set pieces have been appalling. regardless if we are winning or losing.
take your pick, lallana, cout, ibe, moreno, milner … seems like none spend any time in training on them. every damn corner almost wasted even before its taken.
stevie had disguised that somehow when he was around. lost his legs, but still whipped in delicious deadballs consistently.
best taker now probably hendo, yet he doesnt seem to fancy it.
any Jan signing need to be able to contribute in this area immediately. heck we’ll even take james ward prowse (trade lallana?) just for his setpieces.
Normally I would agree with you yet against WH we actually came very close to scoring at least twice from corners towards the end, one was actually a planned move it seemed to me, a flick on from Can and a clear header from Lucas whose effort, naturally, got booted off the line.
It was something I thouht we started the season doing very well, mixing short corners, innovative free kicks etc. In all honesty you’d think it would be fairly easy to work on …. Anyway Jurgan is the boss and he knows what is what.
yes the floater was effective but then again we cannot rely on it too much as it can be easily defended – stick someone tall as first defender and it will have to be a perfect ball for a flick on – not sure how much of an impact Gary Mac (best execution of a floater) made earlier in the season when he was coaching, maybe we need him back just to coach set pieces !
Spice Boyz Mark 2 – Clyne – tooooo small to defend the back post every fn time. Lovren – decent – Sahko – Bambi on Ice, Moreno – Simply cant defend, Lucas – spent force, Can – decent, Coutinhio – soft and inconsistent, Firminio – Please WTF??, Benteke – Rodgers failed formula a la Lambert (remember he sold Carroll too), Mignolet – the root of panic and dismay; a total liability.
Breaking news, shock horror, static target man doesn’t fit Liverpool.
Please someone explain this to me. All our success in recent times has come from highly mobile forwards with movement and / or guile sometimes aided by world class attitude and even biting!! This was combined with pretty direct football.
So why oh why have we (well BR actually) spent 2 summers hankering for a big lumbering target man, spending over £50m on Balo and Benteke and Lambert with Sturridge a massive injury concern? What on earth was the thinking there?
Klopp wasn’t starting Tekkers but using him very well as an impact sub, but now he’s forced to start him and it’s the disaster he knew it would be.
I said in the summer that Rodgers would have had a plan on how to play him. He’d know something us novices didn’t. No way would he be so utterly clueless as to buy him without that plan, knowing what happened with Mario and Lambert. Well guess what.