NEIL ATKINSON was joined by Paul Johnson, John Gibbons and Rob Gutmann on this week’s podcast after the worst Derby in living memory.
The lads also talk Spurs with Paul Duhaney from Africa Oye.
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DIRECT LINK – The Nothing Derby
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Still think the 5 May 2013 derby — the 0-0 at Anfield when both teams had literally nothing to play for — was worse. At least we’ll one day look back at this one as the day when the legend of Jordan Ibe was officially born.
Forgotten about that one (easy to do). I don’t even think it was played at the obligatory, balls out derby pace that the weekend’s effort at least had and as you alluded to it was a width of the post away from being the Ibe derby.
But yeah, no goals, no horrific tackling, no scandalous decisions. Everton’s approach was desperate beyond belief and even more pitiful with it being Martinez and not Moyes. At least Naismith and Henderson had the good, common decency to start kicking off on each other just for something to do and I thank them for it.
Coutinho was playing well, but he was carrying a knock. Raheem had been given a good kicking too. Lallana wasn’t on the bench was he? Most people here have been calling for Gerrard to play either as an impact sub or in an advanced position, I don’t think dropping him back would have been a popular decision. FWIW I think he got most of the big calls right, starting with Ibe, maintaining the Lucas/Henderson axis, taking not chances with Coutinho and Raheem. Lambert didn’t work, and there was a case for bringing Markovic on, but we wouldn’t be having this conversation had he taken his chance, and Lazar was coming back from injury. The subs felt wrong because Coutinho provides for Sturridge and Gerrard’s playing a slightly different game at the moment, but he had an eye on the bigger game tomorrow and we should still have had enough against a limited Everton. Shouldn’t have played Lucas though if he hadn’t trained, though you’d like to think he was advised by people far more qualified than me!
Moreno’s the obvious attacking substitution when were struggling. Ibe, Lazar and Sterling can all provide more of a threat. I’d still start with him against Spurs though.
For me, the subs thing was quite simple. If we really had wanted to ‘go for it’ and win the game, Markovic should have come on. Perhaps around the 65 minute mark.
Time and time again would you see a situation when Sterling drops deep to collect the ball and leaving space begging to be attacked. Simultaneously, you have both Gerrard and Coutinho dropping deeper and not even threatening to attack that space. Probably because those three as an attacking trio of in this system are not particularly ‘balanced’.
However, regardless, all it would take is a lateral run into that space from either wingback (and Moreno was chief culprit for me, though Ibe could be accused of it as well) and all of a sudden Everton have some problems they have to deal with.
As Moreno’s more of a natural fullback than winger, he probably didn’t think to run in there. If we really wanted to go for the win, replacing Moreno with Markovic would have made more sense than bringing Lambert on.
Why are we always said to be sacrificing games to preserve our chances for a following match? I think our starting eleven against Everton was okay. It’s when we make substitutions that we go awry and I don’t think it’s anything other than a complete absence of tactical skill: it’s not fear of upsetting Steven Gerrard – he just hasn’t a clue. I ask again – nominate a game when a Rodgers substitution worked to win or even save a game. In fact you’d be pressed to nominate one that even made sense.
You view everything Rodgers does through such jaundiced eyes. I don’t really think you can accuse of Rodgers of sacrificing games for the next game. He has generally sent out strong teams with the target of winning every game. (Madrid away being the obvious exception exception). He also generally continues to chase a win rather than settle for a draw towards the end of a match.
It can be debated whether enough of his substitutions impact on games to significantly improve the result, but to say that his substitutions don’t make sense is complete nonsense.
You might find some people on here to agree with you that Rodgers lacks tactical skill, but you won’t find many pundits, current players, former players or fellow managers saying the same.
Kevin, you don’t remember the good subs BR has made because of your prejudiced view. Here are some off the top of my head. I’m sure that a structured analysis will throw up more of BR’s influential substitutions. Also, this doesn’t take into account numerous shape changes BR makes during the course of games that influence the outcome. I’m sure some tactical skills are required to make them.
– Hendo for Suso in the first half against Wigan 12/13. Went onto win 3-0.
– Sturridge for Coutinho at halftime vs Chelsea 12/13. Sturridge scored and assisted in a 2-2 draw.
– Sturridge for Lucas vs Everton 13/14. Scored last equaliser in 3-3 draw.
– Sturridge for Coutinho vs Stoke 13/14. Sturridge scored and assisted in a 5-3 win.
– Lucas for Coutinho at halftime vs Villa 13/14. We came back from 2-0 to 2-2 in the 20 odd mins Lucas was on the pitch. He went off injured. Game finished 2-2.
– Teixeira for Sterling vs Fulham 13/14. The debutant contributed fearlessly to our siege at 2-2 and had a hand in winning the penalty which won is the game in injury time.
– Allen for Sterling vs Swansea 13/14. A topsy turvy game was precariously poised at 3-3 when he came on. Both teams looked like scoring each time they went forward. Allen brought calm to our midfield. The game finished 1-0 in Allen’s 30 mins on the pitch giving us the win.
– Sterling for Coutinho vs Southampton 13/14. We were leading 1-0 but were very exposed against Saints attacks. Lead looked brittle. Sterling’s entry gives us the perfect counter attacking thrust in the middle of the pitch scoring immdly after coming on. We control the game henceforth and win 3-0.
– Allen for Sturridge vs Manchester City 13/14. After a great start, we were increasingly pegged back and were hanging on at 2-2 after an hour. As against Swansea earlier, Allen brought calm and we held possession better and moved up the pitch as a team. The game finished 1-0 in his 30 mins on the pitch with us looking more secure against City’s thrusts after his introduction.
This is without delving into this season where there have been some influential changes by BR like Coutinho vs QPR etc.
I hope this refutes your baseless theory of BR having made no effective changes in his 2.5 yrs with the club. I also hope this helps you look at BR more objectively, without your dislike of him filtering through.
Does BR have more to learn? Of course. But is he the chump that you are trying to portray him as? Not a chance.
Is he tactically switched on? More than most managers. I see it as one of his strengths. Those who think he is no good at this tactical business either have a bias or don’t understand tactics IMHO.
Sothampton away last season, Everton the season before. Change of shape, changed the result. Brendan did enjoy telling us all about it after the game though.
And yet here you are unwilling once again to answer his simple question…..
Can for Kolo against Burnley? Sturridge coming on in any match?
People can always pick holes as the range of possible alternatives for any given substitution can’t be tested against the decision that was made. Anyone predisposed to see Rodgers as an idiot is going suggest that for any given sub, there was a better option to be taken.
Kevin, Chris- you guys are obsessing too much on this. Sometimes substitutions change a game, more often than not they don’t. And that applies to every manager of every club, not just Rodgers.
If you really want some examples then a fairly obvious one would be Sturridge last week against West Ham made the points safe. Last season there was Sturridge coming on at Everton and at Stoke, and Sterling away at Southampton.
I understand your knocking of Moreno but if his job is too beat his man and cross the ball into the box ( which he done ) then surely the blame lies with whoever decided “yeah 5 foot nothing Raheem Sterling will be the guy you aim those crosses at!” That’s just poor management or poor choices but if it is poor choices then surely it’s the managers fault? I rate Brendan and I am happy he is there but you can’t knock the players if they don’t have what they need too aim at ! Then bring lambert on and not cross the ball at him!
Seems like that issue’s been resolved then! He’s just like other managers. Sometimes it works, sometimes it don’t you know. I don’t remember Wenger changing matches from the bench, doesn’t mean it hasn’t happened though. He can and will improve but you can’t guarantee success from the bench unless you’ve got Supersub champing at the bit!
One for Robin from today’s Echo!
‘Liverpool are defending well at present, and have not conceded a goal from open play since New Year’s Day, a run of nine games in all competitions. Their back three was rarely troubled at Everton, but will miss the injured Lucas Leiva protecting in front against Spurs.’
If Ibe’s shot that hit the post had gone in, it would have drawn comparisons with Rooney’s ‘Remember the name’ goal against Arsenal at Goodison. I thought he was fantastic, especially in the first half.
He already looks like a fully-grown man, with the calmness and casual strength that marks the departure from late-adolescence in a big guy. Seasoned pros will quickly pick up on this and realise that there is little point being at his door with intimidating remarks and body-language. He is the one who knocks!
Thought Everton did a good job on Sturridge and made him go looking for the ball. I actually enjoyed the derby, despite the lack of goals. However, when Lucas went off, I pretty much knew that we wouldn’t win and thought we would probably find a way to lose. Perhaps we would have if Everton had shown more intent?
God Gibbo, You sounded terrible. Almost grumpy – very out of character; must’ve been a mad one.
Ya but his comment about Moyes at the start of the show nearly made me crash the car in hysterics which made up for the grumpiness!
Guess he got the subs right tonight!
Fuck all this footy chat, 3 weetabix milk and bang it in the microwave for 3 mins then stir in a tablespoon of Nutella and sugar is optional, get on it lads! Crunchie nut corn flakes my ass!!