International break, no football to speak of, but loads of football to talk about. Neil was joined in the Tower by Rob Gutmann, Sean Rogers and Jim Boardman to discuss how the Liverpool squad looks after the ins and outs, Michel Platini”s hard-line stance on Financial Fair Play and the tactics LFC have been using Meanwhile, Nagacorp’s NagaWorld casinos was the scene of the major labor stoppage by casinos staff. of late.
Music this week from Shellsuit and The Relays.
Direct link to CITYTALK: SHELL LIKE
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Not sure what to make of Rob’s comments that it was naive of FSG. I’m in two minds. On the one hand I can remember my thoughts 2 or 3 years ago when I believed it would come in, in some form, but that City and Chelsea, particularly, would abuse it and find loop holes, making it a mockery. So, I didn’t believe UEFA would spend all that time on it and suddenly try to back down.
On the other hand, if FSG had spent £500m on players, we’d reached the CL and then been kicked out for not balancing our spends with income then we’d all be saying the FSG were extremely naive.
It’s not ‘dead’ anyway. I think Platini has finally realised how tough it’s gonna be to police. Maybe he’s also been swayed by the fact that it’s not just English clubs he’d have to come down on. Maybe the changes at PSG and Monaco have played a part in his cooling. We know his feelings involving England and France and where his loyalties lie.
So my point is, yes it appears naive of them in hindsight but at the same time who would believe UEFA would say all this for nothing? In fact, don’t answer that.
I think Rob is saying that FSG foolishly believed FFP was a genuine attempt at stopping the oil barons and oligarchs from buying their place at the top table. Anyone that follows footy will know rules don’t apply at the top, and it’s trivial for accountants to work around any rule. Platini didn’t like the fact the French were becoming 3rd tied in the CL, but the money slopped in, and now he doesn’t give a shit. PSG and Monaco can slug it out with Real, Man*, Barca and any other club willing to pay £200k/week for top players.
We need to remember FSG are used to fixed rules with rounders/baseball. There is no pyramid and the league resets every year. Shit teams get first dibs on those men coming out of college going pro, and then sell/trade them with the big boys. It’s the same with grid-iron. The NFL is massive, but it’s the same shit.
Our game is nothing like that, it’s far more capitalist than US sports. Even ice-hockey players earning millions a year went on strike not that long ago and killed an entire season.
FSG have fixed our accounts and the rot, and obviously can’t compete with the top clubs. We, as a club might push the top competition this year, but I can’t see FSG doing anything long term other than flipping the club.
My understanding is that Baseball in North America is not run the same as the NFL, in many ways its quite similar to the English Premier league in that it is dominated by bigger spending teams. Most baseball players do not come out of the college draft system so the balance is not reset each year. Most baseball players are either brought in through minor league teams or are signed from abroad (Venezuela, Dominican Republic etc.) similar to the way Liverpool uses its youth or reserve teams or purchases players from abroad. Each major Baseball team has a relationship with a minor league team or feeder club (similar to Liverpool’s reserve team relationship) and then develop their own players or they purchase foreign players (who are free agents) through the team/clubs own dealings (the number of foreign players is growing, currently 30% and many Americans are concerned about the falling numbers of local players). Although the league is generally dominated by teams from the bigger markets, I would think that FSG pride themselves on the ability of the Red Sox to often be able to outperform the New York Yankees even though the Red Sox have a smaller payroll. FSG probably think that they can use better coaching, scouting and player development (the “Moneyball” concept) to compete with the New York Yankees over the long term (the Red Sox are currently 1st in their division and the Yankees are fourth and the regular season is almost finished) and I think its possible FSG think they can do the same with Liverpool in England over the long term.
Another interesting note is that Major league baseball in the U.S. does not use a salary cap largely because it has been opposed by bigger teams and the players union. “Instead of a salary cap, Major League Baseball implements a luxury tax (also called a competitive balance tax), an arrangement in which teams whose total payroll exceeds a certain figure (determined annually) are taxed on the excess amount in order to discourage large market teams from having a substantially higher payroll than the rest of the league. The tax is paid to the league, which then puts the money into its industry-growth fund.
A team that goes over the luxury tax cap for the first time in a five-year period pays a penalty of 22.5% of the amount they were over the cap, second-time violators pay a 30% penalty, and teams that exceed the limit three or more times pay a 50% penalty from 2013 onwards. There is also an incentive to lower payroll; if in any year a team goes under the threshold, the penalty rate decreases to 17.5%, 25% or 40% (depending on prior record over the previous five years) for the next time the tax is paid, which will apply from 2013.The cap limit for 2011-2013 is $178 million, and for 2014-2016 $189 million.” quoted from wikipedia. Perhaps the luxury tax system could be successfully implemented into European Football. I am neither European or American so I don’t have a bias either way but I think this is something that Platini could look at as he faces opposition to Financial fair play, perhaps a luxury tax could be more easily and effectively implemented.
My “reset” comment is regarding the league teams not the pennies. There’s no relegation, no promotion, just the same teams starting again on 0 isn’t it? Granted it’s not my sport (can’t stand it to be honest), but I never heard any fans talking about new sides when I lived in the US for 12 years.
I can’t see the luxury tax thing being accepted, it’s probably against some EU law for employment. It would certainly improve the game no end up to a point. But then, I’d also like to see all div 1-4 clubs enter the FA cup in the first round to ensure the small clubs get a plum-tie that will hugely help their survival.
It’s up to the (relatively) “have not” teams to call Platini out and say WTF?! Otherwise we are just whinging. John Henry is smart and eloquent enough to put him on the spot with a statement and I imagine he’d have the backing of all the other teams without a sugar daddy.
Force the issue so we all know what the story is and owners can plan a teams business model accordingly. I’m shocked that teams aren’t demanding a black and white ruling rather than letting these divvies spew this “give me a nice xmas prezzy and I’ll turn a blind eye” innuendo that let’s the offending teams know the rules don’t have to apply to them.
So, Mr Platini, is it going to be enforced or not? If not, strike it from the books. And don’t stop shaking the tree until it’s sorted, none of this vague bullshit!
Naive, I know, when so much money and corruptible humans are involved in the equation, but had to get it off my chest.
It sounds like Platini has backed away from the hardline rules. Either because it’s illegal, or they stand no chance against the might of the oil barons and oligarchs in court, or the top clubs will tell him to fuck off and created their own euro competition, or he never really gave a shit, but didn’t like the idea of the French clubs being third class citizens in the CL. But now they have money clubs, that concern is moot. Or perhaps, he received an ‘arry “bonus”.
The one thing to remember about money and UEFA is that they never cared until the PL became the TV money behemoth.